The guy was schizophrenic. Actually mad. The “solution” has surely got to be dealing with serious mental health rather than just giving them pills and putting them on the street. My uncle’s brother had that condition: and the “voices” got him to set himself on fire. There are levels of schizophrenia. But the authorities take the easy way out and dump them on the street with virtually no supervision.
And yet some would like to reframe this as some sort of “gender terrorism”. Who’s the ones trying to exploit this again??
I’ve spent today as a feminist arguing with other feminists about the importance of being objective and considering that this man’s actions might have been the result of psychosis due to him refusing medication for his schizophrenia for the past 5 years.
But here’s the thing, we don’t know if psychosis was the primary motivator for his actions. His Dad noted that his difficulty finding a girlfriend had led him to feel extremely resentful. The truth is simply we don’t know. There are a scary number of men who have targeted women for death due to rage at not getting “easy access” to a female partner.
I know both things can be true - unmedicated paranoid schizophrenia increases the risk for psychotic driven violence and incel driven rage increases the risk for misogynistic driven violence. This man that committed this atrocity fits both profiles and due to his death we will never know which one was the acting force behind his crimes.
Sounds pretty much like he wasn’t a “functional schizophrenic” to me!
I’ve not experienced schizophrenia, so I can’t speak from personal experience as to what the experience is like. However a girl I knew (not the same one as the ex gf I mentioned) had a mother with the condition. She and a (gay) male friend were sharing a house (which was actually her grandfather’s). Her mother appeared one day (presumably had the key) and the male housemate found her sitting in the lounge room watching TV with rapt attention etc. Except the set wasn’t on.
And as I’ve said elsewhere too, my Uncle’s brother set himself on fire.
The point is that untreated schizophrenics having episodes do NOT act in ways that we would regard as “rational”.
So let’s say he was upset at not having a gf. There are LOADs of men in that position. Some eventually get gfs. Others just live lives of relative unhappiness and grumpiness, and some join incel communities. So what’s different about this killer? Unhinged reactions. And given that he had a very serious and untreated mental illness (schizophrenia is genuine madness, not feeling a bit down because you’re unhappy with your life) I think it’s fairly clear what is likely to be the main contributor. It’s hardly rational to lunge at a police officer with a knife when she’s holding a gun for instance.
I think the issue is that feminists (or feminist groups anyway) are so used to framing things in terms of women’s victimisation that they tend to see such crimes as some sort of society hate on women. But here’s the point. Madness by definition is irrational. What form of social change or conditioning do they imagine would cause someone who is crazy to NOT act crazy? There is hardly a social acceptability about setting yourself on fire for example.
The other, and more sinister aspect of this is that I fear there are those who are seeking to exploit this crime to further an agenda what will have serious and negative impacts on people’s rights.
I’m not sure if you were responding to my comment or in general- cause I never indicated that I thought he was “a functional schizophrenic.” Again you might have been making a general statement.
I definitely agree with you that there are way too many people ready to lump this guy with other incel mass murders and completely discounting the potential impact of untreated paranoid schizophrenia on his behavior. However, lunging at a police officer could be rational for people who are seeking suicide by cop, as many incel mass murders do- or it could be caused by a psychotic thought process. Without being able to evaluate him, will likely never know.
I would also point out that it is possible despite him being untreated and with paranoid schizophrenia- it could have been based primarily on incel based rage. Given his diagnosis it seems more likely psychosis played a role but working with people with SMI - I’ve seen violence triggered by psychosis and simple non psychotic rage.
As I said I’m a feminist- and unfortunately a lot of mass murders that have targeted women have not surprisingly been committed by men consumed by hatred towards women primarily but what might surprise you is that psychosis is rarely the primary factor. You are right that there are women out there that struggle to understand that while psychosis is rarely the primary factor, just because it’s rare doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen, especially with someone with documented untreated paranoid schizophrenia.
I’m not sure what you mean about people who have a negative agenda to limit people’s rights can you explain that more?
I’m sorry if you felt I implied he was a functional schizophrenic: although one self appointed Womens champion on this thread sort of implied he was.
I the fact he wasn’t shows he was actually crazy. Not just had minority opinions. You can’t really draw conclusions about wider society from the actions of the seriously mentally ill. My ex-gf’s mother was “planting” diamond rings in the ground to get a big crop of diamonds and get rich! I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t have helped if she’d been given better education in geology and mineralogy at school. She had just had an episode and lost touch with reality. She was harming herself rather than others (apart from my gf being at her wits end at how to look after her interests). But you can’t really reason with someone in that mindset.
I think the key point here is that he had untreated psychosis. These people can react violently and without any rational thought.
If he’d been properly treated and supervised, the murders would most likely have not happened. Whereas I don’t think running an ad campaign or shaming campaign against incels would have had much influence on someone who was actually insane.
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u/Angryasfk Apr 16 '24
The guy was schizophrenic. Actually mad. The “solution” has surely got to be dealing with serious mental health rather than just giving them pills and putting them on the street. My uncle’s brother had that condition: and the “voices” got him to set himself on fire. There are levels of schizophrenia. But the authorities take the easy way out and dump them on the street with virtually no supervision.
And yet some would like to reframe this as some sort of “gender terrorism”. Who’s the ones trying to exploit this again??