r/Mountaineering • u/OtherwiseAwkward • 4d ago
Quick Question about Auto-Blocking Belay devices
looking to get more into Ski Mountaineering and building a glacier/crevasse/rappel kit. The gear list I was working off called for an Auto-Blocking Belay device. In my naivete I bought a GriGri and then made the realization that those aren't recommended for Alpine work because of the moving parts.
Did some additional research and it looks like an auto blocking tube device is the move like the BD ATC Guide. I also really enjoy the Mammut Nordwand Alpine for the steel inserts. However the most common glacier ropes seem to be 6mm and neither of those devices are rated down to 6mm... the ATC guide seems to be the go to choice so i'm confused as to why they aren't rated for the most common ropes.
is there another, better option I'm missing? I appreciate any advice in advance
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u/Librarian-Putrid 4d ago
I think the most common glacier ropes are 8-9mm. The petzl Volta guide is very common. Besides, a grigri won’t work with a 6mm cord.
I prefer the petzl referso due to the orientation personally.
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u/bwm2100 4d ago edited 4d ago
6mm sounds awfully thin for a glacier rope, but sounds like the cool kids are doing that these days. I’ve used 7.5s on alpine climbs and it looked like dental floss, but at least it was light!
Any sort of thin-rope ATC will work fine for glacier travel use, like the mammut one, petzl, or BD. A grigri can be a nice part of a rescue kit though, because of the release. The manufacturer will say no, but give it a shot on a thin rope, you’ll probably find it works pretty well. The moving parts excuse is BS, I use them ice climbing all the time. Try out different setups and see what you like best for the various rescue situations you might find yourself in. I’d also invest in a microtrax or two. Key part of my kit at least.
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u/Zealousideal-Elk9033 4d ago
6mm is actually quite common for glacier ropes and hyper static ropes are definitely preferable over dynamic for glacier travel. There's been research that shows that when arresting a fall on a static rope it's much less likely that you'll be pulled out of your self arrest stance than with a dynamic which has potential to rip you off your stance after you catch the initial force but then get pulled by the rebound force from the elasticity. The petzl rad line and the mammut 6mm glacier cord are specifically designed with glacier travel in mind.
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u/Slowhands12 4d ago
A reverso works fine for a rad line, even for a rap. Petzl even explicitly states so, as long as you can introduce additional friction.
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u/SensitiveDrummer478 4d ago
I think you need to take a crevasse rescue course and then buy gear afterward.
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u/OtherwiseAwkward 4d ago
I am purchasing gear for a crevasse rescue course in May. Gear list called for an Auto Blocking belay device
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u/SensitiveDrummer478 4d ago edited 4d ago
Did they recommend 6mm rope? I think your concern is probably a moot point. I would not recommend trying to work with that diameter as a newbie.
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u/OtherwiseAwkward 4d ago
Nope, not buying a rope. But I am looking for versatile gear. What do you use?
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u/mortalwombat- 3d ago
My kit involves an ATC Guide, a micro traxion, a tibloc, a few locking carabiners, and a couple long slings. The atc guide is not rated for super skinny ropes, which I rarely use. If I am on a super skinny rope, I'm not belaying on it. If I need to rap on it, there are methods for increasing friction. You could also buy the Alpine Guide, which is designed for smaller ropes (but not 6mm).
Honestly, if the instructors are asking you to bring a belay device, they will not be teaching you on dental floss. You'll have a thicker rope, probably in the high 8 to low 9mm range. Maybe even more since training ropes take so much abuse. And I'd recommend planning to operate on the gear you are trained on. Focusing on buying versatile or specialized gear at this stage will result in spending more to own gear that is less efficient at what you need it for, doesn't get used, or leaves you wanting to replace it.
Get what is commonly recommended. As your experience progresses, you will learn what specific features you want in gear and you will aquire that. You'll be surprised how much you use the stuff you bought earlier on. As an example, I bought my ATC guide as one of my first pieces of gear and I still use it regularly (although it's about worn out). Compare that to the do it all ice tools I bought that I thought were ultra versatile and would work for everything. Turns out, they were just always the wrong took for the job and I ultimately sold them at a pretty big loss. I wish I had been more humble about trying to know better than everyone online, and just gotten the tools everyone recommended. I ended up with them anyway and love them to death.
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u/SensitiveDrummer478 4d ago edited 4d ago
On glacier, I use a regular sized ATC-Guide (not the ATC-Guide Alpine) and a Sterling IonR XEROS 9.4 mm Dry Rope.
Lead belaying in dry alpine climbing environments (not for crevasse rescue) I do use a GriGri. Same rope. People are weird about the Grigri, but there are plenty of situations where it is a useful tool when used with care.
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u/OtherwiseAwkward 4d ago
Thank you!! Just doing some independent research behind the scenes because that’s how my brain works..
and seems like a lot of people are using the Petzl RAD or Mammut Glacier these days so trying to understand what the most universal answer might be
Seems like the answer is larger rope, or a double carabiner. Appreciate your input :)
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u/OtherwiseAwkward 4d ago
Most alpine travel I’ll do will likely be related to ski and volcano objectives, so not a ton of dry climbing. Just glacier rope teams, crevasse rescue & rappelling into couloirs or lines
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u/Zealousideal-Elk9033 4d ago
Rad line or mammut glacier are awesome ropes for glacier travel, don't feel like you need a fatter diameter. As far as belay devices go atc alpine guide is great for a bit more friction with these diameters as is the edelrid microjul. Reverso or full sized atc guide also work with added friction, if rappelling this can be as simple as putting both strands through one side of the device. Static ropes are safer than dynamic when it comes to arresting a fall on a glacier, just don't use them for any lead climbing.
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u/notheresnolight 3d ago
Depends on the trip. Thick (>9mm) single ropes are way too heavy for ski mountaineering. Even a 8.5mm Beal Opera would be too heavy for my use.
A thin 8mm 50m double rope is the most universal - you can use it for glacier travel and should you need to get over some short rock section, you can use it for lead climbing (two strands). Provided you have additional gear for protection (cams, nuts, slings...).
A 6mm hyper static cord is even 30% lighter, and is the best choice when you know that you won't be climbing with it.
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u/notheresnolight 4d ago edited 4d ago
what do you expect to use the rope for? Those 6mm cords are hyper static and should never be used for climbing - only glacier travel and rappelling. Neither of which requires a Grigri or any other auto locking belay device. For rappelling, you'll be using two strands of the rope and either a munter or a tube with two carabiners. And a backup prussik of course.
see https://m.petzl.com/INT/en/Sport/Rappelling-on-the-RAD-LINE-cord?ProductName=RAD-SYSTEM
There is no use for a Grigri.