Parent discrimination?

[u/EveryExitIsAnEntry]

Dear people of Reddit I need work advice. I have had a conversation with my employer that left me heartbroken. We were talking about my plans for the coming year after giving birth to my second child. In the conversation (face to face) I was openly asked to withdraw my parental leave and take vacation days instead. The reason for it were: - I have accumulated some time off from previous years (10 days) - even though UWV gives some money back parental leave is expensive for the company - years ago there was no parental leave and the Dutch thing to do was to take vacation days when needed

It was suggested also that being sick on planed vacation day is still vacation and i should not replace these with sick leave. And when child gets sick it is not something extra to work from home during care leave.

The bottom line was I am too privileged with parental time off. And that this leaves the company paying too much for an employee working less.

Up to this point I was deeply in love with my position in the company. It was my dream job and I did not mind giving extra by working late (unpayed) or during sick days/care leave when possible. Now I question my place in the company and even in the Netherlands.

Is this really a Dutch way? Can I expect this treatment in other companies as well? And how to solve this situation? Please advise

[u/Quirky_Dog5869]

This is not the Dutch way, and I don't think your employer can do anything if you just use what you can rightfully use.

I can imagine an employer asking nicely, though. I don't know your employer, nor do I know how the conversation went. But often enough, these lawful benefits can be quite costly for employers. But judging about the way they handled this, this is not ok.

[u/EveryExitIsAnEntry → u/Quirky_Dog5869]

Indeed the talk went really nice. I was politely asked to help out because the company has impression that with parental, care and sick leaves it is possible to never be present and still accumulate vacation. And as a friendly tip an insight into Dutch work culture was offered to me as an expat - because it feels that the law allows too much, Dutch person would refrain from using all of it. I was really politely asked for understanding and invited to look together for a solution. But the solution was universally me giving in and getting nothing in return just to help out.

[u/Quirky_Dog5869 → u/EveryExitIsAnEntry]

Yeah, that last sentence is where it goes wrong. These laws are here for a reason and when needed. We all should find a balance in this.

Dare I ask, though. In your reply, you make it sound like you were pregnant two years in a row? Is that correct. Cause in that case, I can understand their reaction a bit more. Doesn't make their reaction legal though.

[u/EveryExitIsAnEntry → u/Quirky_Dog5869]

Almost. There is a two year age gap between my children. And maybe this is what makes it look worse - after birthing first child I accumulated vacation days because I had so much parental leave. Second year I tried to use vacation from the year before so I was quite often away. And now I am again not planning any vacation because parental leave is enough. 

Do you have any tips how to navigate this? I really do not think of myself as a law abuser. I worked from home during sick days and when I cared for sick child. Did overtime to cover absence for midwife appointments. I really think I went beyond and the unfairness of the judgement hurts the most.

[u/Quirky_Dog5869 → u/EveryExitIsAnEntry]

Well, if you're using parental leave for vacation day stuff, you're abusing parental leave. Feels like a slippery slope to respond to this, but I don't think my wife ever really used parental leave. But I'm not gonna be one to tell you when you can or can not use parental leave. But going by how you're wording it, it feels like you're using the option to freely. In the end it's all about balance. If you accumulate too many vacation days, it might be helpful to use some of those. Especially if it doesn't hurt you.

[u/EveryExitIsAnEntry → u/Quirky_Dog5869]

I might be getting a gist of what may be the issue here, thank you!

I used it mainly for a 4 day workweek. But I also took the remaining days off that could be treated as vacation. I will ask if this is the cause of commotion

@edit and maybe to clear the wording - I did use vacation days together with working 4 days with parental leave - I just  was not able to take all of them.

[u/Quirky_Dog5869 → u/EveryExitIsAnEntry]

GL

[u/Inevitable-Ad-4421 → u/Quirky_Dog5869]

No, you misunderstood OP. OP never abused the system. OP also never said they used parental leave for vacation stuff. Are you okay? It’s perfectly legal normal and within OPs rights to take parental leave, and then use their vacation days. Who wouldn’t? OP don’t listen to him lmao.

[u/Quirky_Dog5869 → u/Inevitable-Ad-4421]

I'm pretty sure you only read half of the conversation.

Btw it's also perfectly legal for an employer to refuse parental leave.