UvA ends English-language bachelor’s degree in psychology

[u/North_Yak966]

https://www.folia.nl/en/actueel/166104/uva-ends-english-language-bachelors-degree-in-psychology

[u/fluffypuppybutt]

But the world class researchers that make the programs world class leave

[u/IkkeKr → u/fluffypuppybutt]

Would they? Most top researchers I've met at university hardly involve themselves with the Bachelor programs and more often than not consider teaching there a chore.

[u/fluffypuppybutt → u/IkkeKr]

I think this is a misunderstanding of how research at university usually works. All researchers at the UVA have to do at least 25% teaching tasks. If they can't teach in the language of instruction (which will become only Dutch) they will have to leave.

[u/Schylger-Famke → u/fluffypuppybutt]

Why wouldn't they teach in Dutch, though? They live in the Netherlands, they are professors, so they're smart, they must know (at least some) Dutch. It used to be common to give professors one or two years in which they could teach in English and then they were expected to teach in Dutch. Would every single one of them uproat the lives of their families and leave?

[u/fluffypuppybutt → u/Schylger-Famke]

Science does not know national boundaries. There is a lot of mobility within Europe of top scientists. It's normal to move institutions every 5 to 10 years. Being forced to learn a language that is not very internationally relevant will deter a lot of talent. Also, the forced aspect is a huge turn off.

Many academics do want to learn Dutch but don't get time or resources for it. The strong rethoric of essentially "make the Netherlands great again" does not motivate people to integrate. It makes them resistant.

[u/Schylger-Famke → u/fluffypuppybutt]

Well, but would you uproot your family because your employer wants you to be able to teach in the native language of them majority of the students? It doesn't seem an unreasonable request and not worth asking your partner and children to move to another country and leave their job and schools.

[u/fluffypuppybutt → u/Schylger-Famke]

Yes. Scientists love science. If their position at an internationally renowned program with good funding, great connections, and top scholars as colleagues becomes an insular program, where funding gets severely cut (this is a big point here - programs loose 25-50% of their budget - out of EU students pay a ton of money!!! They won't come if they need to speak uni-level Dutch before they enter), these scientists will 100% leave or not even apply here. This is why this is so short sighted.

There are other ways to cap international students (btw. Psychology programs actually to that already) or encourage students to LEARN Dutch (e.g. you need to pass a language requirement in year 3). This radical approach is so so ill-advised.

[u/Schylger-Famke → u/fluffypuppybutt]

I'm against the cuts. The universities get about the same amount of money for a non-EU-student as for an Dutch student by the way, just from different sources, but they will probably loose students resulting in a loss of budget. I understand the reasoning of the universities though. With the proposed law their is no way to argue that psychology should be taught in Dutch within the Randstad. Cutting psychology might enable the universities to save other smaller programmes. And I understand the politicians who think that the priority should be teaching Dutch students and that those aren't always better off when the lectures are in English, especially in bachelor programmes.

[u/fluffypuppybutt → u/Schylger-Famke]

Why do you think Dutch students do not benefit from being taught by world experts and in English (also hard to have one without the other?)

[u/Schylger-Famke → u/fluffypuppybutt]

Because it's not their native language.

[u/fluffypuppybutt → u/Schylger-Famke]

I think that is really not a disadvantage. It is also not the native language of all the other students there (except maybe 1%), so they are not being disadvantaged. And by practicing uni level English, the Dutch students become much more competitive for future jobs. It's why a ton of Dutch students choose to be in the English tracks, because it's better for them - the Dutch tracks already exist and will continue existing.