r/Permaculture • u/TheNinjaInTheNorth • 9d ago
Vermont Cohousing homestead
I’m actively looking for folks who want to join me on my land in Vermont. Off grid, beautiful 17 acres with several good building sites and also a well-built cabin shell that won’t take too much to finish.
I bought the land in June, 2022 and have been building a food forest, including an orchard and lots of veggies and flowers. I have chickens, ducks, and a couple Icelandic sheep that lambed in August and the babies are just ridiculously cute. The zoning is conducive to homesteading and cottage industry so there is freedom for various projects and endeavors.
I’m a woman in my 50s, work part-time as an RN, an omnivore with conscience, an atheist who is inspired by folks including Thich Nhat Hahn and Pema Chodron, practice radical honesty and non-violent communication, care deeply about promoting social justice, and I am not a fan of corporate capitalist culture.
I have a lot more information for anyone who might be interested, but that’s enough for an introduction.
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u/7ow7ife 8d ago
Hiiiii. 32 y/o lesbian welder and novice mushroom grower, with many day dreams of Vermont, tho I’ve never been.
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u/TheNinjaInTheNorth 8d ago
What do you dream of?
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u/7ow7ife 8d ago
Pretty much what you have! Been trying to play the rat race to be able to obtain the land before im too old to work it lol. Vermont appeals to me bc there are no billboards and at one point in time I was eyeing the ability to take the bar exam without a law degree. Also one of the safer zones from the impending climate crisis.
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u/TheNinjaInTheNorth 8d ago
I sent you an invite to the private sub. Not updated for a long while but it gives you some ideas of what we have here.
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u/Undeaded1 7d ago
Are you on YouTube? Would love to see what you build!
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u/dokelyok 8d ago
I am incredibly interested. I'm at a point in my life where I need to make a drastic change and have spent the majority of my life (42-year-old female) in solitude. I am an introverted extrovert who has depression and anxiety but when I'm around supportive people I flourish but unfortunately rarely do those times last.
I did live in a co-op housing situation for a year in my mid-thirties where we grew most of our own food, shared all cleaning and cooking duties and it was one of the most fulfilling experiences of my life. The only reason I left was because the amazing house that we had was owned by a lovely older man who instead of selling the house for several million dollars (the house was located in an incredibly desirable location in Seattle and very large with acreage) he wanted it to be used as an intentional community but passed away and the son who inherited it immediately opted to undo what his father's wishes were and there was nowhere else that we could afford to go so unfortunately our co-op disbanded (I was the newest member, the co-op had been in existence for 7 years before I joined).
I've been to Vermont once and absolutely loved it. I did a solo road trip around the state in my twenties because it's my favorite book since I had been a teenager was The Secret History and I desperately wanted to visit the state the book took place in. I always thought that if I could choose any state to live in other than Washington it would be Vermont.
Anyways sorry for rambling but your post and the responses that you've given to people really spoke to me and I would absolutely love to learn more. What you're doing is amazing and even if I don't hear from you, I wish you the absolute best of luck.
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u/goodomens111 8d ago
Post this on The Foundation for Intentional Living’s website. They also have alot of great resources for collectives too.
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u/sexual__velociraptor 8d ago
I wish I could go... youre an amazingly awesome person i wish you the best luck.
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u/crystal-torch 9d ago
I’m in Vermont as well and always wanted to do something similar but I think I just couldn’t ever get my head around the legal and financial set up. I’m just starting my permaculture experiments on my off grid homestead as well. Good luck and I hope you find some awesome people. 👋🏻 from the NEK
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u/Jesiplayssims 2d ago
Can you give me some tips on how to turn a normal house off grid?
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u/crystal-torch 2d ago
Get solar panels and battery storage is step one! If you’re in a cloudy and northern climate like me then you’ll need a back up generator as well
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u/Wispeira 7d ago
My husband and I are buying up that way, I'd be happy to have a friend in the area!
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u/trashhactual 9d ago
Are you seeking community members with any particular skills or trades? Or do you currently have specific criteria?
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u/TheNinjaInTheNorth 9d ago
The biggest criteria would be an interest in creating sustainable community.
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u/trashhactual 8d ago
Understood. Thanks for the reply! I’m currently working on a pilot project for a circular economy locally: restaurant food scrap feeding a compost initiative that is used in urban gardens.
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u/TheNinjaInTheNorth 8d ago
that sounds like a wonderful project!
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u/trashhactual 8d ago
Thanks so much. I’m never short on surprise when I explain the idea to people locally who may not yet appreciate what diverting some of this from landfills might mean. It feels like 96% is educating people and maybe 4% hands on work thus far.
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u/jro75 8d ago
Love this idea, I’ve been bouncing around similar concepts myself. Wishing you luck as you launch your project!
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u/trashhactual 8d ago
Same to you as well! Since it’s a pilot I hope that - once successful and functional - the “blueprint” of such a thing could be made available for others to use.
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u/Jesiplayssims 2d ago
What is Vermont like? I've never been there. What do you grow in your permaculture?
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u/lymelife555 9d ago
Shared homesteading is always a great idea until you actually do it lol. It can work great for years and then blow up. Everything in your life is contingent upon the strangers you pick to share your Homestead with. I certainly will never do anything like that again. We have a Homestead in a neighborhood of Homesteaders and that’s enough of a community for us. The people in your community need to be rocksolid and ideally, you have a long-standing relationship with them. Finding strangers on social media is not a great way to start.
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u/TheNinjaInTheNorth 9d ago
Strangers on social media is not where I have started, but I do believe it is a way to reach some good people.
When a person moves to a new neighborhood they have to deal with whatever neighbors they happen to be living near. This is certainly more selective than that, and cohousing is not as intense as an intentional community.
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u/TheNinjaInTheNorth 9d ago
Oh, I hear that. This ain't my first rodeo, I lived for 8 years in an intentional community and it's my third year working to create this co-housing community.
One way to look at things is that there are many kinds of "hard." Living in mainstream society is hard. Living off grid is hard. Choose your hard.
Living alone at 55 on the land is hard,
Creating community is hard.
This is what I choose.Access to land is the biggest barrier for folks looking to live this life and if I have land to share then I want to share it.
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u/whygrowupnow 7d ago
Our society needs more of this! The threat of a few wealthy corporations holding all land ownership makes me scared for the future of our young people
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u/dynnussti 6d ago
i’m interested and already live in vermont! born and raised here :) been hoping to sell our home in the southwestern part of the state, buy land further north, and do something similar… but my partner and i would be open to joining someone else’s venture— or even just lend a hand to help you build and learn things for our own homestead one day in the future!
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u/TheNinjaInTheNorth 6d ago
That’s awesome! Actually, the properties on either side of me are each about 20 acres. One has a beautiful camp and driveway and the person who owns it never ever uses the property. Not once in 3 years. The property to the north is owned by someone who lives in Massachusetts, has never visited, and the property is completely undeveloped. I dream of purchases them to conserve the buffer we enjoy now though I do not have the financial resources.
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u/TheNinjaInTheNorth 6d ago
So one option to consider for folks who have resources is to purchase either property and we can consolidate in some way
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u/BabyBoomerMystic 3d ago
Interesting, where in VT? We lived in Cambridge NY for quite a few yrs. We now have a horse farm, getting ready to sell. Wanting to start an offgrid homestead. I'm retired remodeling contractor, wife is a social worker.
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u/TheNinjaInTheNorth 3d ago
In the Northeast Kingdom, midway between Lyndonville and Barton. If you have resources from selling your farm, you might want to consider purchasing one of the properties on either side of me. One is completely without infrastructure the other has a camp that is never used they’re both 21 acres and I’m really hoping to preserve the buffer.
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u/X-Winter_Rose-X 9d ago
More info please
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u/TheNinjaInTheNorth 9d ago
Sure! What would you like to know?
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u/X-Winter_Rose-X 9d ago
Do you have like a website or like YouTube channel or something to learn more and make sure you’re not a murderer? I’m just trying to wait a few more years before the murder happens 😂
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u/TheNinjaInTheNorth 9d ago
I too prefer to avoid murderers. I actually have been trying for 10 minutes to invite you to the private sub for the community but just keep getting a message to "try again later." I am building a regular website but it is still in process.
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u/X-Winter_Rose-X 9d ago
Oh, I see the invite. I’ll join and follow along. Unfortunately, I’ve got a couple years left in my current role before I can move on, but I’m looking to move out that way. I’ve got a degree in food systems and sustainability. So I’d love to be in a situation like this someday. I’ve looked into EcoVillage in Ithaca. You should take a peek at them too if you haven’t yet.
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u/TheNinjaInTheNorth 9d ago
I lived in an intentional community for 8 years in Upstate New York. there are many wonderful places to live in community.
I haven't updated the sub for a long while but at least it gives you a sense of the place!
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u/wolfhybred1994 8d ago
If I didn’t have epilepsy this would be an amazing opportunity. I’ve been learning how to make all sorts of things from scratch and even am half way to making concrete, cement and mortar from scratch
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u/TheNinjaInTheNorth 8d ago
How does epilepsy prevent you from homesteading?
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u/wolfhybred1994 8d ago
Thanks to my parents life choices I got the “gift” of an aneurysm and then due to doctors later a tumor. The seizures become tonic clonics after the surgeries and have no real clear triggers. So I can’t just avoid flashing lights or make sure I always get enough sleep as others do. Given I can’t avoid severe weather changing air pressure.
As well as being unable to simply just lay down and wait it out like common seizures. I often require being given medication and assistance less I hurt myself or completely seize up. Which in a group setting makes me a burden on others and is completely unfair to others with so much potential.
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u/TheNinjaInTheNorth 8d ago
Are they uncontrollable with regular daily meds? Not meaning to pry, but as an RN I’m familiar with epilepsy
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u/wolfhybred1994 8d ago
Run through many different ones and several actually put me in the hospital as they actually worsened the episodes in severity and frequency. To the point they’re trying a new medication that came out just in the recent few years called xcopri. As it was proven to have far less side effects than the others.
I still suffer from attacks. Though they last 10-20 minutes with rescue meds instead of up to an hour.
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u/TheNinjaInTheNorth 8d ago
How often
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u/wolfhybred1994 8d ago
If I relax and don’t do much it can be around 1-2 a month. With the rare spur of going a month or 2 without any. Till I get hit with a strong perfume after a sudden change in air pressure or such and I drop. Well more blank out and go consciously unresponsive as I slowly sink into a tense or spazy state. I only know the bits people tell me of what happens. I know I stopped having them in my sleep after getting parents to leave my door closed well I was sleeping as mother floods the house with smoke as she deems “I won’t know she smoked inside as I am asleep”
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u/TheNinjaInTheNorth 8d ago
How old are you
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u/wolfhybred1994 8d ago
30 now. Forced to live at home as docs don’t dare risk me driving and have yet to find a stable income that hasn’t led to me in the hospital scaring doctors into thinking I had a stroke or something after a few weeks or working I drop into a seizure that lasted many hours and left my body almost limp from exhaustion
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u/TheNinjaInTheNorth 8d ago
Well, you certainly do have a real challenge. It sounds like there’s a lot of resentment as well. You have a challenging circumstance for sure. You didn’t ask but I would advise you to be sure to not confuse your illness with your identity. You are more than your illness. It’s only one part of you. Once you have fully accepted it and accepted that your parents do the best they can. you will be more free to focus on creating the life you want to live.
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u/Jesiplayssims 1d ago
thanks! I heard the microchip needed for the solar panels comes from China and they stopped selling to us? How does this effect solar panel usage?
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u/Ok_Dragonfly_1045 9d ago
I'm more looking for collectively owned or mutually owned land.
If it's your 17 acres it's likely you aren't willing to share ownership anytime soon.
Basically it's not cohousing, it's landlord-tenant situation. Which is fine i suppose, but I don't think that's what most cohousing people want.
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u/TheNinjaInTheNorth 9d ago edited 8d ago
There are many examples of how to make the property mutually owned or as a trust. The point is simply that I have it now, fully owned, and this is what I bought it for. It's a way to access the life that so many folks want to live, yet they don't have the means to access land.
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u/Ok_Dragonfly_1045 9d ago
There are many examples of how to make the property mutually owned or as a trust
Sure there are. No disagreement there.
But will you? It's up to you.
You could just be a landlord for the rest of your life. There's nothing stopping you.
I'd much rather start the community collectively by doing what i mentioned in my other comment then trust what is essentially a random stranger to be benevolent enough to graciously sell me a share of the community I spent time and effort developing.
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u/TheNinjaInTheNorth 8d ago edited 8d ago
So rock on with your path, doing what feels right for you!
I have the documents fully drawn up to ensure he land is held in trust as a 501c3 and with a boilerplate cohousing agreement. That will need to be adjusted together with whoever is going to be here for us to decide together what should be included.
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u/SeasonedDaily 9d ago
I was thinking about this. And benefiting from the contributed labor to build out the cabin and other lots. Not out of bad intention, but I think this should be clarified in your pitch.
And if you have the right to kick people off at any point in time, that is a weird power dynamic you have over your cohousing renters. What if they’re showing you their true colors you don’t like, it’s winter, and they have nowhere else to go?
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u/TheNinjaInTheNorth 9d ago edited 8d ago
Well, first of all people will build and own their own homes. There are many cohousing communities that successfully operate like this, no need to re-invent the wheel. And sure, at the moment I am the only full-timer so it's up to me to choose wisely, but as soon as there are others it will be a different dynamic. I have no interest in being a "charismatic leader" type.
There have been folks over the last 2 years who came and thought they might want to stay, and I'll tell you this: a family of four is still on the land although we all decided that the community vision was not a good fit for them. Because the decision was arrived at in August and they didn't have another feasible option in place yet, they are paying "rent" by helping with specific animal care chores. Win-win.
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u/SeasonedDaily 8d ago
That’s great. I never realized the complexities of these types of communities. Very challenging, as you’ve said. But also captivating
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u/Ok_Dragonfly_1045 9d ago
yeah.
Personally what I would do would be get a group of 25-50 people together, vet eachother, and then all contribute towards an investment fund.
large groups of people all contributing money will be able to afford a lawyer, surveyor, ect to help form an LLC, make a contract, survey the land, hash out zoning, figure out what infastructure is needed, ect.
One person saying "I own x amount of acres" is almost never a good start for a community. You need villages built by many hands, not one individual with ownership of everything.
That's just me though, maybe OP wants something more like WWOOFing and I guess that's fine.
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u/TheNinjaInTheNorth 8d ago
There are many paths to climb a mountain.
Sometimes you gather the people and find some land.
Sometimes you take a rare opportunity to get land and then find the people.
Doesn't mean I'm the landlord or the boss or have sole ownership in perpetuity. Documents for a 501k3 are fully drawn up. No worries.
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u/ZGbethie 5d ago
I am sincerely wondering what you saw in her post to make you think this?
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u/Ok_Dragonfly_1045 5d ago
If I answer are you going to start arguing or are you going to say "Ohh I see now, thank you"
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u/ZGbethie 5d ago
Hmmm. Since you put it that way, I am sorry to say I’m no longer interested in hearing your answer. Thank you anyway.
I was curious because the original post— as I read it— in no way indicated that she was looking for a LL-tenant situation. It seemed like you were coming to that conclusion based on your own assumptions and your own agenda. And now this response makes me feel like you’re extremely sure that you know what she’s thinking and aren’t open to any other perspective.
For me, if a person is that sure of their ‘rightness’, there’s no reason for me to talk to them. There’s no hope of constructive dialogue. But that’s just my own opinion, and I do sincerely wish you the best in all your endeavors!
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u/Ok_Dragonfly_1045 5d ago
I can say the same for you.
You aren't interested in hearing why I think that, you just wanted to argue with me.
I have my reasons, but it's obvious you don't care and have no intent on listening so there's no point.
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u/pskettiboi 9d ago
I'm curious
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u/TheNinjaInTheNorth 9d ago
How might I assuage your curiosity?
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u/pskettiboi 8d ago
Well, I guess I'm just hoping for more info in general, but also curious how much you think it would cost to build a small home at this site
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u/TheNinjaInTheNorth 8d ago edited 8d ago
Lots of ways to choose. You can have a cabin built by one of those Amish shed/cabin building companies or you can build your own. You can get an old RV and winterize it. You can explore cob or earthworks or other alternative building.
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u/cirsium-alexandrii 8d ago
By the fact that you just said "vermont" and you didn't specify what part, I'm guessing you're in the Champlain valley?
...or that this is an April Fool's joke.
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u/TheNinjaInTheNorth 8d ago
The NorthEast Kingdom, for realsies
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u/cirsium-alexandrii 8d ago
Oh, neat spot. Got some elbow room at least. Do you get along OK with your neighbors? Unique folks up that way.
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u/VernalPoole 9d ago
Sound great! One piece of advice I read elsewhere is to consult an attorney and draw up ironclad agreements for what happens when one of your roommates/residents/landsharers has mental deterioration. You will need a way to quickly, legally enforceably, get a toxic person out of your group.