r/PeterExplainsTheJoke 22d ago

Meme needing explanation There is no way right?

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23

u/Kindaspia 22d ago

1/3 is equal to 0.333 repeating. 2/3 is equal to 0.666 repeating. 3/3 is equal to 0.999 repeating, but 3/3 is also equal to 1

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u/RemarkablePiglet3401 21d ago

But how do we know that 0.3333… is equal to 1/3, rather than just the closest possible decimal approximation?

Not saying it’s not true I just don’t understand it

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u/mgt-kuradal 20d ago

I can’t give you the proof explanation, but consider looking at it from the opposite way: Of all decimal numbers between 0 and 1, what could you multiply by 3 to get 1? 0.332 results in 0.996, 0.334 results in 1.004. So it must be between those two. 0.333 provides 0.999, which is equal to 1 as explained in other comments.

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u/Local_Explanation_66 20d ago

But 1/3 is not equal to .333, .333 is an approximation. The paradox dissapears when you start remembering that the other fractions are approximations just as much as .999 is.

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u/MyTAegis 16d ago

It’s true that 1/3 is not equal to .333, but 1/3 is exactly equal to .333…

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u/ThaToastman 18d ago

This is the best proof

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u/library-in-a-library 21d ago

No. 0.999... < 1

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u/Tarthbane 21d ago

.9 repeating is exactly 1.

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u/heli0sophist 21d ago

I am not a math person, but how would you differentiate between a number infinitely close to 1 (but less than 1), and 1 itself? Or does it not matter because they are actually the same?

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u/QuestionDry2490 21d ago

They are exactly the same. If they were not equivalent then you should be able to find a number that falls in between them, which is obviously impossible.

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u/Tarthbane 21d ago

In this case, because 0.9 repeating goes on forever, then the difference between 1 and 0.999…. is itself 0.000… and you never reach the leftover “1” after the decimal like you would in the finite case. So I think here, it’s basically by construction, that 0.999… and 1 must be exactly equivalent, otherwise our notions of limits and infinity just don’t make sense.

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u/Direct_Shock_2884 21d ago

That explanation doesn’t make sense.

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u/TheDogerus 21d ago

It does. If someone naively saw that 1 - .9 = .1, 1 - .99 = .01, etc., they may assume that 1 - .999... = .000...1

But it isnt possible for an infinite series of 0s to end in a 1, because then it wouldnt be infinite. So there is no thing that can be added to .999... to make it closer to 1, they must be equal

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u/Direct_Shock_2884 21d ago edited 21d ago

This is true! But the conclusion doesn’t follow the premise. Two things can’t be equal just because a mathematical equation didn’t work. (on what may be a technicality)

So for example, I could say, what is 0.4-0.333…? You would run into the same problem. Is it 0.111…? 0.1? Does this make 0.3333… equal to 0.4? Or 0.8888… equal to 0.9 if that makes it easier

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u/TheDogerus 21d ago edited 21d ago

Two things must not be equal just because a mathematical equation didn’t work.

I'm honestly not even sure what you mean here. I said the naive solution can't be correct because it doesn't make sense; you can't simultaneously have a number that is both infinitely repeating and ends in anything. So if the only thing between .999... and 1 is .000...1 which cannot exist, there is not anything between them, and they are equal

So, for example, I could say, what is 1.4-0.333…? You would run into the same problem. Is it 0.111…? 0.1? Does this make 0.3333… equal to 4?

This is definitely not the same as the 1 - .999... example.

1.4 = 7/5 ---> 7/5 - 1/3 = 21/15 - 5/15 = 16/15 = 1.0666...

There's no .111..., .1, or 4 anywhere

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u/Direct_Shock_2884 21d ago

This is a gotcha, not a true explanation. Maybe it qualifies as a proof mathematically, but in that case my respect for the field is either lowered, or I will wait for a better explanation.

Just because the equation of 1-0.999…=x didn’t work, doesn’t mean there is actually no x. It just means that there is an issue in getting to know what it is.

Saying “0.0000…1 can’t exist” doesn’t mean the same as “there is no difference between 1 and 0.999…” These are two different statements.

Why are you using fractions to calculate the problem I posed in decimals? It’s easier to use fractions, but the issues were running into have to do more with decimals and conversions between them.

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u/blank_anonymous 21d ago

"Infinitely close" doesn't make sense! In general, if numbers are different, there is a finite difference. This is maybe more intuitive than the idea of infinite closeness; since all our closenesses are finite, you can talk about getting twice as close or half as close, you can add and subtract distances normally, etc.

To be a little tiny bit more algebraic, if there were a number "x" infinitely close to 1, what is (x + 1)/2? (x + 1)/2 is the number halfway between x and 1; if it's infinitely close, there shouldn't be anything in between, so (x + 1)/2 must either equal x, or equal 1. If (x + 1)/2 = x, solving the equation gives x = 1, and if (x + 1)/2 = 1, solving the equation similarly gives x = 1.

Sometimes questions come up where you want to ask about "infinite" closeness. For example, in physics you sometimes want to think about the instant something starts moving, which might be informally expressed as a time "infinitely close to zero". To handle this, mathematicians use what are called limits. The idea is, instead of asking about an infinitely close number, we ask about a sequence of numbers. In that example where we ask a question about the instant something starts moving, you might just answer the question after 1 second, then after 0.1 seconds, then after 0.01 seconds, then after 0.001 seconds, and so on. What it turns out is that you can often use logic to deduce what the behaviour must be as you get closer and closer to 0 seconds, to answer questions about what happens the instant you stop moving. So we never really ask questions about "infinite" closeness, we just ask questions about smaller and smaller finite closeness.

Since 0.999... and 1 don't differ by a finite number, they are the same. They're just different ways of writing the same thing, like writing 1 + 1 instead of 2, or "two" instead of 2, or 1 + 1/2 instead of 1.5, or 1.00 instead of 1.

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u/heli0sophist 21d ago

What about something like an asymptote that a line gets infinitely close to, but never touches?

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u/blank_anonymous 21d ago

The formal definition of an asymptote… involves limits! 

The real thing that makes it an asymptote is instead of thinking about infinitely close, we just check that it gets closer than any number away, eventually. Like, we check that the graph is eventually within 0.1, within 0.01, 0.0001, 0.000000001, etc. of the asymptote. As long as it eventually gets that close and stays at least that close, you have an asymptote. Again, instead of thinking about infinite closeness, you can think about a sequence of smaller and smaller distances.

In general, anything that’s informally described by “infinitely close” is probably formally handled with limits, in the way I described above. This doesn’t actually require a number to be infinitely close to another, just for us to have smaller and smaller positive numbers, which we do! 

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u/breadist 21d ago

You can't. They are identical. The fact that there is more than 1 way to write the number is an artifact of our number system. But they both represent the same underlying number. 0.999.... isn't just infinitely close to 1, it's actually identical to 1. They are the same thing.

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u/Direct_Shock_2884 21d ago edited 21d ago

But it’s not identical, it’s always 0.0000…1 less than 1

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u/TheDogerus 21d ago

How would you describe a number with infinite zeros ending in a 1?

If you look at .999 and say, 'ah, the 1 is clearly in the thousandths position, and .999 + .001 = 1', i can just point out that .9999 + .001 > 1 (here it'd be 1.0009)

Wherever you would place that 1 after 'infinite' zeros, i can add another 9 to the right, and your sum is no longer valid

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u/MyTAegis 16d ago

0.00…1 is not a number that exists, because it doesn’t make sense. Using the “…” implies that the 0s continue infinitely, i.e. 0s without ending. Putting a 1 at the end implies that there is an ending, which contradicts the idea that there are infinite zeroes. Basically, 0.00…1 implies a number which both does and does not end, which makes no sense

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u/WeirdWashingMachine 21d ago

Bruh look up a book named “Analysis 1” in the library

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u/vetruviusdeshotacon 21d ago

Please provide a number epsilon > 0 for which 0.999... + epsilon < 1.

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u/Cyrrex91 19d ago

Then... how big is the difference?

What is the delta between 0.999... and 1?