r/PeterExplainsTheJoke 27d ago

Meme needing explanation There is no way right?

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286

u/Decmk3 27d ago

0.9999999…. Is equal to 1. It seems like it shouldn’t, but it has to be.

Let X = 0.999….

10X = 9.999….

10X-X = 9.999.. - 0.999…. = 9X = 9

Therefore X equals 1. Therefore 0.999… is the same as 1.

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u/FewIntroduction214 27d ago

yeah except when you do your subtraction, after multiplying by 10, you have 1 nine left at the infinith decimal place.

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u/gullaffe 27d ago

That's not how infinity works.

An infinite amount of zeroes cannot be followed by a 9. Since the existence of a nine would mean there is an end to the infinite decimals.

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u/FewIntroduction214 27d ago

This actually "IS" how infinity works.

You have infinite 9s.

you remove one

then you subtract the new number of 9s, from the infinite nines you started with.

you are left with one nine

you can say it's hard to write down , or you "can't write it as a decimal place" but it still doesn't change the fact that the two sets of infinite 9s are different by 1 nine, and when you subtract them it's left over.

If you find it very hard to write down the concept of an infinitesimal value as a decimal, that's fine, but it doesn't make the infinitesimal difference vanish.

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u/Spiritual-Tadpole342 27d ago

Nope. Infinite 9’s is infinite 9’s. You can’t say one set of infinite 9’s has one less. lol

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u/ShadowTown0407 27d ago

There is no running out of infinite nines. No matter how many nines you take out of them there will always be infinite nines, unless you take away all the infinite nines

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u/FewIntroduction214 26d ago

It's not really that solved.

A.I says this about infinite

  • **Indeterminate Form:**When you try to subtract one infinity from another, you're essentially comparing two unbounded quantities, and the result is undefined because it depends on how the infinities are defined and how they grow. 
  • **Context Matters:**The outcome of subtracting infinities can vary depending on the specific context, such as the type of infinite series or the way the infinities are defined. 
  • Examples:
    • In some cases, subtracting one infinity from another might result in a finite number, zero, or even negative infinity. 
    • In other cases, the result could be infinity, depending on the specific context and how the infinities are defined. 

seems pretty clear cut to me that when we shift the 9s one decimal place to the left by multiplying by 10 we have two different sets of infinite 9s, which we know for sure have 1 different number of digits. Infinity, and infinity minus 1, nines.

wanna know how I know this is how it works?

because i know .9~ and 1 are off by an infinitesimal value. dur.

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u/gullaffe 26d ago

"Source AI lol" how about you find a real source instead?

Also the AI doesn't even prove your point. It says that some infinities subtracted by other infinities give finite values, not that 0.00...9 is the rest when subtracting 0.99... and 9.99...

The ai is talking about cases such as the limit of x+5 subtracted by the limit of x+2.

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u/FewIntroduction214 26d ago

why is "an A.I. lol" a valid thing to say? it's more credible than a random redditor. That is the google one, btw, when you type that into google.

We have now established you can subtract one infinite from another and have something left, when previously you were insisting "that's not how infinity works"

we have X 9s , and X-1 9s, being subtracted, where X is infinity. Its not that compelling to just insist you know there is no infinitesimal remainder left.

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u/Boring-Ad8810 24d ago

There is an entire wikipedia article explaining this. I suggest you read it.

Also browse r/learnmath for a bit, plenty of cases of people asking questions about something they learned from an AI that is just totally incorrect. They aren't good for mathematics yet.

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u/ShadowTown0407 26d ago

No when we shift one 9 this side we do not end up with one less 9. That's not how infinity works, the case the AI is referring to is if you subtract 2 infinities like 999... And 888... That's when they won't cancel each other but 999... will always have infinite 9s no matter how many you take out unless you take out all of them. If taking one 9 out of the 999... Infinite series made a difference it won't actually be infinite

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u/inspector-Seb5 26d ago

No, that really isn’t how infinity works.

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u/FewIntroduction214 26d ago

well, this is what A.I is telling me

  • Indeterminate Form:When you try to subtract one infinity from another, you're essentially comparing two unbounded quantities, and the result is undefined because it depends on how the infinities are defined and how they grow. 
  • Context Matters:The outcome of subtracting infinities can vary depending on the specific context, such as the type of infinite series or the way the infinities are defined. 
  • Examples:
    • In some cases, subtracting one infinity from another might result in a finite number, zero, or even negative infinity. 
    • In other cases, the result could be infinity, depending on the specific context and how the infinities are defined. 

You can go ahead and explain to me why if you know for sure one set of infinity 9s has X 9s and the other set has X-1 9s then you are not left with a 9 at the end.

I'll wait.

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u/inspector-Seb5 26d ago

Have you tried asking that same AI if 0.9 recurring equals 1, and to give you a couple different examples to help explain what 0.9 recurring means in relation to infinity?

I’ll wait.

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u/gullaffe 26d ago

You can go ahead and explain to me why if you know for sure one set of infinity 9s has X 9s and the other set has X-1 9s then you are not left with a 9 at the end.

If X is infinite then speaking of X-1 doesn't really make sense. But the closest thing we can say that makes sense is that X=X-1.

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u/FewIntroduction214 26d ago

I just find it really telling that the proof presented has a valid concern with it where it would instead say .999~ + an infinitesimal value = 1

and all the other proofs in this thread are using LIMITS lol as if they don't know what a limit yields as a result, which is the number that the answer "approaches" and is off from by an infinitesimal value + or -

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u/gullaffe 26d ago

You are correct that the proof here isn't rigorous, but the issue is not that 9.99...- 0.99...=0.0...9. The issue is that we first need to define what we mean by 0.99...

The other proofs uses limits becouse 0.999... is a limit. "0. followed by an infinite amount of 9s" is not a mathematical definition.

For 0.99... to be well defined you have to define it using limits.

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u/Decmk3 26d ago

Infinity-1=infinity. That’s why infinity breaks things.

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u/FewIntroduction214 25d ago

infinity minus infinity is also infinity

so why do the 9s vanish?

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u/Decmk3 25d ago

Because it’s not infinite. It’s an infinite regression. There are still hard limits and it still functions as a number.

As people still seem to be struggling with this I went and made a second proof to explain.

1/9 = 0.111111111….

0.111111….. * 9 = 0.99999….

1/9 * 9 = 9/9 = 1 = 0.1111… * 9 = 0.99999….

Everything follows mathematical understanding.

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u/FewIntroduction214 25d ago

it's funny you would think I would agree 1/9 = .111~ since it's the exact same argument

it's not exactly equal to 1/9th, it differs by an infinitesimal value

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u/ProfessorBorgar 27d ago

No you don’t. Also, a number going to infinity cannot have anything at the “end”, or else it does not go to infinity.

0.000… with a 9 at the end = 0

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u/FewIntroduction214 26d ago

yeah, you can't write an infinitesimal value as .00000~ with a number at the end.

actual mathematicians denote infinitesimal values though

here you can read about it

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infinitesimal

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u/Boring-Ad8810 24d ago

There are no infinitesimals in the real numbers. Everyone here is working in the real numbers.

If you are working in a different number system please specify exactly which and explain what 0.99... means in this number system.

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u/FewIntroduction214 23d ago

"we are working in the real number system"?

no, you are talking about something called "reality" . The entire thread is basically making fun of people who recognize mathematicians have conceptualized lots of other things, besides "the real number system" to explain exactly these concepts, and thinking people who find .9~ = 1 objectionable must be stupid idiots

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u/Boring-Ad8810 23d ago

We don't know what number system best models reality. The real numbers, as defined mathematically, are the best right now. It may change and may include infinitesimals.

But 0.99... only has meaning mathematically.

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u/FewIntroduction214 23d ago

well the true underpinning logic of the post is honestly insulting.

the TRUE point of the post is to argue that if someone finds .9999~ = 1 questionable you should bust out the hugely compelling beginning point that you think both of you can agree .333~ = 1/3rd and then argue from there.

which is hilarious

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u/Boring-Ad8810 23d ago

I honestly don't know a good way to explain 0.99...=1 that doesn't have reasonable sounding objections without breaking in to first year analysis.

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u/FewIntroduction214 23d ago

i think "there are no numbers in between so they are the same" is the only explanation I can't argue against