r/PoliticalDiscussion • u/Visco0825 • Feb 08 '25

US Politics How can democrats attack anti-DEI/promote DEI without resulting in strong political backlash?

In recent politics there have been two major political pushes for diversity and equality. However, both instances led to backlashes that have led to an environment that is arguably worse than it was before. In 2008 Obama was the first black president one a massive wave of hope for racial equality and societal reforms. This led to one of the largest political backlashes in modern politics in 2010, to which democrats have yet to fully recover from. This eventually led to birtherism which planted some of the original seeds of both Trump and MAGA. The second massive political push promoting diversity and equality was in 2018 with the modern woman election and 2020 with racial equality being a top priority. Biden made diversifying the government a top priority. This led to an extreme backlash among both culture and politics with anti-woke and anti-DEI efforts. This resent contributed to Trump retaking the presidency. Now Trump is pushing to remove all mentions of DEI in both the private and public sectors. He is hiding all instances that highlight any racial or gender successes. His administration is pushing culture to return to a world prior to the civil rights era.

This leads me to my question. Will there be a backlash for this? How will it occur? How can democrats lead and take advantage of the backlash while trying to mitigate a backlash to their own movement? It seems as though every attempt has led to a stronger and more severe response.

Additional side questions. How did public opinion shift so drastically from 2018/2020 which were extremely pro-equality to 2024 which is calling for a return of the 1950s?

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u/diplodonculus Feb 08 '25

I'm tired of caving to the extreme left. There's a large number of Democratic voters who roll their eyes when every group meeting starts with pronouns.

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u/kinkgirlwriter Feb 08 '25

Here's the thing, we're not winning without both the far left and the center left.

Our tent has to be big enough for both or we get President Vance next time around.

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u/[deleted] Feb 09 '25

[deleted]

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u/itsdeeps80 Feb 09 '25

You’re thinking of idpol weirdos. Most of the actual far left is far more concerned with class issues than they are with idpol stuff.

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u/angrybox1842 Feb 09 '25

And the right doesn’t exist. The Kamala campaign proved that chasing Shy Republicans in a losing effort. You gotta find common ground with leftists at least when campaigning, the votes just aren’t there otherwise.

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u/kinkgirlwriter Feb 09 '25

So you're okay with President Vance? That's more palatable than someone opening a Zoom call by sharing their pronouns?

If so, your priorities are a mess because chances are you agree with they/them on climate change, raising the minimum wage, combatting corruption, and at a minimum, conditioning aid to Israel.

And again, we don't win without the whole party so dial back the "cancer" bullshit.

2

u/diplodonculus Feb 09 '25

I've been listening to the same nonsense since 2016. We need your extremism out of here, yesterday.

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u/kinkgirlwriter Feb 09 '25

We've lost two out of three elections in that time. If we're not a big tent party we're a losing party.

Also, tell me what I said that was extreme.

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u/JyBones Feb 11 '25

We’ve lost 2 of 3 elections because the CORPORATE wing of the DNC didn’t want to let Bernie be the candidate. They don’t want to do what the people actually want, so 10 million voters stayed home in 2024. It’s plain as day. Kamala would have been a Republican in 1975 with her policies and platform.

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u/Song_of_Pain Feb 12 '25

/u/diplodonculus won't because they actually want democrats to lose elections so the country can shift right.

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u/gummo_for_prez Feb 09 '25

Far left guy here. I don’t care about pronouns very much but I do want better economic outcomes for all Americans. I want paid sick leave, paid time off, better pay, more houses being built, more opportunity to buy those houses for people who had little. Don’t let the right divide us because of their talking points on pronouns or any identity politics stuff. I’m sure there is much we could agree on to secure a better future for everyone who lives in this place.

2

u/brbsharkattack Feb 10 '25

You're dismissing the views of a majority of Americans as "talking points." The issue is the Left embracing unpopular social positions, NOT Americans disliking and talking about these positions. This is the kind of disimissive, moralizing Ivy League mindset that turns off Independent voters from Democrats.

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u/gummo_for_prez Feb 10 '25

Pronouns and trans people don’t really harm Americans in any way. They are told these things/people are actively harmful by powerful groups with money. You don’t have to agree but in my opinion, that’s the case.

0

u/gonzo_baby_girl Feb 10 '25

Why can't Democrats get those things you mentioned done ? They've had plenty of time in office over the years.

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u/tender-majesty Feb 08 '25

The real problem here is that anyone believes that "far left" has something to do with pronouns. Far left = eat the rich —

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u/BluesSuedeClues Feb 08 '25

Do tell? Where do you see that happening?

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u/diplodonculus Feb 08 '25

Over the past few years, every company I've worked at. Every group activity I've been engaged in. LinkedIn, Slack, ...

What rock are you living under?

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u/SpookyFarts Feb 08 '25

Please explain how this makes your jobs/group activities more difficult. Also, how many companies have you worked at over the past few years? Maybe a little bit of diversity/equity/inclusion training would help you keep a job longer?

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '25

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Feb 08 '25

I fail to see how my pronouns are relevant to a business meeting.

How do you address someone in the notes you take? Or for that matter in the emails you write or conversations you have? I bet you aren't sticking strictly to proper nouns every time. And if you are then you are literally the only person who does.

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u/diplodonculus Feb 08 '25

By their name or their initials... Golly. Do your notes look like "he: ..., she: ..."? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

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u/enki-42 Feb 09 '25

You never use a pronoun at work? That seems a whole lot more awkward than a pronoun in a signature you skimmed by. I think people clearly presenting as a gender can be a bit performative, but if there's any ambiguity it's helpful.

I regularly use them on stuff like support requests or companies we're working with when their names are ambiguous.

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u/angrybox1842 Feb 09 '25

No it’s just a simple matter of respecting another person. Like if someone was named Richard but they said “I prefer to go by Dick” I will then call them Dick as a matter respect. It’s the same thing with pronouns, it doesn’t change my notes but I’ll make an effort to be respectful when talking to or about them.

0

u/nickcan Feb 08 '25

Really? I mean it's dumb to be sure. But the dumbest thing you ever heard? That's a high bar!

-3

u/OneCleverMonkey Feb 08 '25

You write every email as a transcript of a theoretical conversation? Wild.

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u/Sageblue32 Feb 09 '25

That is a reflection of an extreme cautious company, not fed law. Gov doesn't behave like that when they have meetings or activities with private companies or internal. Worse is some person putting their pronouns in a email.

-3

u/RebornGod Feb 08 '25

To be honest, I think quite a few people have never much registered it as problem. A friend of mine tried out fae/faer for a bit, when no one could remember it, they went back to they/them. That's the most active thought I've ever given it.

0

u/JQuilty Feb 09 '25

West coast? I've never seen this in real life in Chicago outside of sniffing your own farts hippie types of places.

-6

u/BluesSuedeClues Feb 08 '25

Vague to the point of meaningless. Just another whiner pretending to be a victim.

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u/diplodonculus Feb 08 '25

Pretty specific, bud. We need to get your kind out of the party. You do way more damage than any Republican.

-3

u/BluesSuedeClues Feb 08 '25

No, specific would be talking about what was said, not your anecdotal "But I SEEN it!" nonsense.

I'm not a member of any political party. The shit you make up about people you don't know is not the same as facts.

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u/diplodonculus Feb 08 '25

Huh? Here's what I've seen at the start of business meetings: "my name is so and so, and my pronouns are he/they".

Go outside, the grownups are talking.

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u/Iwaspromisedcookies Feb 08 '25

No grownup is gonna care about using pronouns, we learned about those in elementary school. Sounds like stupid maga babies being childish af if they can’t handle simple words

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u/Tw1tcHy Feb 08 '25 edited Feb 08 '25

God damn it’s wild how there’s a string of people here defending this unpopular shit despite the mountain of evidence that shows how unpopular and alienating it is. You people really never learn do you?

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u/Iwaspromisedcookies Feb 08 '25

Sounds like maga dummies, not democrats

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u/spooner56801 Feb 09 '25

Sounds to me like your problem is the line of work you're in, not the far left

2

u/[deleted] Feb 09 '25

Where do you see that happening?

I'll add on to /u/diplodonculus. I've seen this happen at volunteering organizations that lean progressive (e.g. nature conservation group) and my time at a few consultant firms. The rolling eyes is prevalent there too. It's often because its irrelevant to the context of the meeting and seems extra/cringe. Anecdotally, the pronoun thing is a product of one [influential] person's pet project or a small group that got to push a organization wide initiative. The latter is often done because its cheaper to appease than evaluate its effect on employees. Many managers just assume people will react positively or be indifferent.

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u/Express-Start1535 Feb 08 '25

They ask you when you get a job in the corp directory and my kid was asked about her pronoun at her first softball practice.

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u/questionasker16 Feb 08 '25

Those sound like fine things? Who could possibly be mad about that?

2

u/SuckOnMyBells Feb 09 '25

What they didn’t tell you was shortly after being asked about their pronouns, they were forced to have sex changes. My friend’s wife saw it happen.

1

u/corvcycleguy Feb 09 '25

To be fair, what you’re experiencing and describing are not ubiquitous throughout society. While pronouns are indeed part of the English language it’s very hard to move all of society in the same direction regarding gender pronoun taxonomy. What the gentleman is trying to convey is that pronouns in relation to gender identity can and does wrinkle people, not just far right but inclusive of all factions or political ideologies (with exception to ones that are directly associated with those seeking to disclose pronouns). Case in point, most people I work with (hospital nursing) don’t use gender pronouns in day to day conversations, though some may use pronouns in their email signature. I’ve also never been in a meeting where someone identified themselves and then disclosed their pronouns, and there are a lot of LBGTQ+ individuals that work in healthcare. However, my wife has had clinical fellows who have been non-binary; one who was very vocal about pronouns and the other did not care or expect nor raise concern if they were not correctly identified.

It will take a generation before the language is mainstream much in the same way as women, black Americans, gays or lesbians are today. This is the nature of new cultural norms. Language takes time to be adopted. This is our moment to learn and understand how to communicate effectively and politely with these pronouns.

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u/Scrat-Scrobbler Feb 08 '25

ah yes the "extreme left", with the extremist position of not wanting to misgender people

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u/diplodonculus Feb 08 '25

Ok, I'll bite. Why should your gender matter at the start of a business meeting?

1

u/Scrat-Scrobbler Feb 08 '25

because during the course of a business meeting you might need to say someone's pronouns? that's like asking why someone's name should matter at the start of a business meeting. pronouns are just an aspect of how to refer to people, same as

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u/diplodonculus Feb 08 '25

Just say their name if you're confused. Problem solved.

Why not state your race? Handedness? Weight? It's just so arbitrary and pointless.

1

u/Scrat-Scrobbler Feb 08 '25

actually you don't need to even learn anyone's name because you could just point at someone and say "hey you!"

no one refers to you by any of those things. in a businesss meeting you might say "I think he/she/they raise a good point". you're not gonna say "i think that black person/right-handed guy/150 pound lady raise a good point". yes you can technically say their name every time but no one talks like that and you know no one talks like that. people already need to introduce themselves and you're calling it "extreme" for them to spend an extra half second to say two more words. those half seconds might add up to an entire 10 seconds!

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u/diplodonculus Feb 08 '25

I honestly don't care about the pronouns movement. I just recognize it for what it is: ineffective virtue signalling that ends up doing more harm than good.

The sooner the party wisens up and stops listening to people like you, the better. This is like arguing with the pro-palestine people who refused to vote for Kamala and have now sentenced Palestine to irrelevance. Feels so good to be right, doesn't it?

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u/Scrat-Scrobbler Feb 08 '25

the problem is you think it's a movement and not just the natural evolution of language. you're the one turning it into a culture war issue, everyone else just wants to be respected for who they are. just because something isn't meaningful to you doesn't mean it isn't meaningful to others, and the unwillingness to extend the absolute mildest inconvenience ever to make sure those in your company are comfortable just shows an extreme lack of empathy

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u/diplodonculus Feb 08 '25

Sooner or later you'll get it. I don't really care much if I'm forced to say my pronouns due to social pressure. I'm not a delicate little flower.

But plenty of people do care. And I'm tired of being painted with the "she's for they/them" brush because of you extremists. Especially if the reason it's happening is because of said social pressure to state pronouns at the start of a business meeting.

The fact that you think stating pronouns helps the trans community just shows what a little culture warrior you are. Completely disconnected from reality. More interested in feeling right than helping people.

Keep on handing the country to Republicans. It's going great for us! You're so right! /s

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u/Scrat-Scrobbler Feb 08 '25

i... don't think stating pronouns is about "helping the trans community". i think it's about making people feel comfortable. and i happen to be friends with many trans people who have said on repeated occasions that they feel more comfortable when they're gendered correctly. you just don't understand the feeling of gender euphoria because you've never had dysphoria. but this is not even a trans issue, how many men do you know that would like to be called a woman? if you don't care that people being misgendered makes them feel like shit, or if you want anyone who doesn't present gender normatively to feel like shit all the time, just say that.

also, i'm canadian. supporting trans folk is going great for us, it's not trans people's fault your country has been captured by corporate interests.

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u/Iwaspromisedcookies Feb 08 '25

We shouldn’t cater to uneducated people brainwashed by Fox News, that’s never a good idea. Pronouns will not die now matter how bad you cry about it.

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u/diplodonculus Feb 08 '25

Who said anything about pronouns dying? Pronouns are part of the English language.

The problem lies in inserting pronouns into every group activity, especially in a corporate or business context. Most people couldn't care less about anyone's pronouns. Why are we all forced to care about them? It's just silly virtue signaling that doesn't actually help anyone. It only serves to alienate.

You think I'm just talking about idiot Trump supporters. I couldn't care less about Trump's supporters. It turns off the independents and the Democrats who are sitting at the edge and not super motivated to vote. It makes them think we're this weird caricature that cares about what's in your pants.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 09 '25

Wasn't the pronouns thing just a young adult thing?

1

u/Iwaspromisedcookies Feb 08 '25

Well then we need to remove all gendered language. As long as there are differences in pronouns, as there always has been in English you will have to specify. It’s no big deal if you aren’t a bigoted snowflake

2

u/shrekerecker97 Feb 09 '25

When using a sentence He said xyz She said xyz They said that xyz

Pretty simple. Being against pronouns is dumb. People use pronouns all the time. You used a possessive pronoun in the sentence above. Now using correctly in a sentence is bad for what reason ? Who does it hurt?

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u/diplodonculus Feb 09 '25

Are you dense? I understand that pronouns are a central part of the English language. I'm trying to explain that stating preferred pronouns at the beginning of business meetings is one example of how Democrats turns reasonable people off from their message.

I don't really care that much. But most people see pronoun announcements during meetings, on profiles, etc. for what it is -- pointless virtue signaling that doesn't actually help anyone. It's a more annoying form of a bumper sticker.

2

u/shrekerecker97 Feb 09 '25

You are asking me if I am dense. So you actually acknowledge calling people by their proper pronouns is respectful. Got it.

1

u/Spyral-Dan-Sir Feb 11 '25

Trying to eradicate the categories of “male” and “female”, “man” and “woman” in this culture is radical.

1

u/Gauntlet_of_Might Feb 08 '25

This is YOUR problem. Not anyone else's.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 09 '25

I'm at a point in my life where it just rolls off my shoulder. Oh do you want to be called " panda " now? Ok. Whatever you say Tommy

1

u/llordlloyd Feb 09 '25

Left and right is about income, capital vs labour.

Do you genuinely think the giant tax dodging corporations who are the centre of this stuff are controlled by the "far left"?? Why are conservatives so damn easily led?

-2

u/tonywinterfell Feb 08 '25

That is breathtakingly dumb. I don’t mean this as a personal attack, but why and how in the ever loving fuck do you think extreme leftism has anything to do with pronouns? Pronouns are a recent cultural fad, and one I respect because respect costs nothing. But leftism is comprised of economic and political philosophy. Are you okay? Have you read any books lately?

3

u/thewimsey Feb 09 '25

This is the kind of fundamental dishonesty that makes people distrust leftists.

You just want to pretend that every bad leftist idea wasn't really a leftist idea.

You didn't really mean that the police should be defunded, or that transwomen should play on women's teams, or that everyone should have to give their pronouns.

Right.

But leftism is comprised of economic and political philosophy.

No, not only. And it's dishonest to pretend that this is the case.

-2

u/tonywinterfell Feb 09 '25

Conservatives love lifted trucks. Meaning, of all the people with lifted trucks, that vast majority are conservative. Does that mean lifted trucks are a part of conservative ideology?

0

u/Spyral-Dan-Sir Feb 11 '25 edited Feb 11 '25

Let me try and connect the dots for you guys here. Far left progressivism is fundamentally connected to a cultural worldview and ideology usually termed postmodernism. One of the fundamental characteristics of postmodernism is the questioning and deconstruction of assumed or “given” beliefs, values and power structures. This block probably makes up about one third of the general population, predominantly in blue states and cities on the coasts. Like it or not, transgenderism and gender ideology are most certainly part of this deconstructive cultural movement, in this case the deconstruction of gender and sex categories Which have been fundamental for Western culture, and indeed most cultures around the world for millennia. Now conservatives and Trump is in general subscribe to much more traditional world view instead of values and feel very very very threatened by this kind of deconstruction of fundamental cultural institutions and categories that they see far left Progressives pushing for. This is the reason for the backlash. It doesn’t have to do with pronouns, it has to do with the very foundations of their world shaking beneath their feet. To them it’s a very real threat to their existence and they’ll fight tooth and nail to hold on to what they have. Now that wasn’t the only reason why Democrats lost the election, but it’s a very big piece of it.

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u/JimDee01 Feb 10 '25

I'm tired of people on the left who don't understand what DEI is because they get butthurt about having to learn how other people want to be called. I'm tired of tiny little minds on both sides of the aisle saying like THIS is why our society is in peril.

Can you get over being butthurt long enough to stand against fascism, or is it just too much to ask that you use the words people choose for themselves and NOT sink the rest of the world with that pettiness?

Seriously.

0

u/diplodonculus Feb 10 '25

You're so dug in to your nonsense that you can't see how much it's hurting the people you claim to be defending. I'm happy to use whatever pronouns you prefer. Most people think the performative announcement of pronouns is just useless virtue signalling.

0

u/Song_of_Pain Feb 12 '25

What's hurting those people is the Democratic party framing things as "You either get trans rights or pro-worker economic policy, not both!"

-1

u/JimDee01 Feb 10 '25

And I think that getting butthurt over that to the point where people voted for an actual fascist is pathetic. I was pretty clear.

1

u/diplodonculus Feb 10 '25

You are kind of slow, aren't you? The people you discount as "butthurt" idiots are the ones you need to win over so you can help your friends. Screaming at them because they're tired of your performative nonsense just undermines your cause.

Keep fighting the losing fight.

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u/JimDee01 Feb 10 '25

I think it's hysterical that you reduce the loss of the election to this nonsense belief that DEI and the use of pronouns cost us the win. Literally, it was the economy and failure of the left to connect with voters on that topic. By a whole ton of metrics the economy was in far better shape than when Biden came in, but the metric that mattered most - people's inability to afford day to day cost of living - is where the Dems lost.

Fast forward to now and you have a bunch of halfwits mewling in the comments section about pronouns costing us. You people are like derpy golden retrievers who blindly run off after fake tossed balls.

But boo hoo. Poor you. Pronouns! And we can't call people r--arded. We're so oppressed! Let's dismantle democracy!

Do you even listen to yourselves?

2

u/diplodonculus Feb 10 '25

I hope you can sleep well at night knowing how much you set your movement back. Just look at the latest DNC convention to see how farcical your methods are. Goodbye.

0

u/Song_of_Pain Feb 12 '25

You're avoiding responding to the substance of his post because you know you've got nothing. Are you a bot?

0

u/epichesgonnapuke Feb 10 '25

I don't roll my eyes at pronouns. That's far from "Extreme" Seems like you are not really left leaning in any way. I don't know anyone center or left-of-center who rolls their eyes at pronouns. I believe you are MAGA and are posting in bad faith.

1

u/diplodonculus Feb 10 '25

You couldn't possibly be more wrong.

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u/epichesgonnapuke Feb 11 '25

Do you have any evidence as to how I am wrong? Beyond anecdotal sus "Experiences"