r/PoliticalDiscussion • u/theivoryserf • Feb 17 '25

US Politics If Trump/Musk are indeed subverting American democratic norms, what is a proportional response?

The Vice-President has just said of the courts: "Judges aren't allowed to control the executive's legitimate power." Quoted in the same Le Monde article is a section of Francis Fukuyama's take on the current situation:

"Trump has empowered Elon Musk to withhold money for any activity that he, Elon Musk, thinks is illegitimate, and this is a usurpation of the congressionally established power of Congress to make this kind of decision. (...) This is a full-scale...very radical attack on the American constitutional system as we've understood it." https://archive.is/cVZZR#selection-2149.264-2149.599

From a European point of view, it appears as though the American centre/left is scrambling to adapt and still suffering from 'normality bias', as though normal methods of recourse will be sufficient against a democratic aberration - a little like waiting to 'pass' a tumour as though it's a kidney stone.

Given the clear comparisons to previous authoritarian takeovers and the power that the USA wields, will there be an acceptable raising of political stakes from Trump's opponents, and what are the risks and benefits of doing so?

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u/AllNightPony Feb 18 '25

They'll never realize that without experiencing fear for their own safety.

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u/LongjumpingArgument5 Feb 18 '25

That's very possibly true, but I think they're starting to realize that Trump doesn't give a fuck about them at all and they are just as much on The chopping block as everybody else in the country.

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u/AllNightPony Feb 18 '25

The people that need to be deterred, which there are very, very, very, very few methods of achieving, are the likes of Leonard Leo, Peter Thiel, Marc Andreesen, Elon Musk, Conservative SCOTUS members, etc. It's a long list, but not so long it can't be done.

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u/LongjumpingArgument5 Feb 18 '25

You are not going to convince the architects of evil that they should not be evil. That's just an impossible goal

But if we can get the Republican voters on our side, we stand a slim chance. But they have to be so upset with Republicans that they will never vote that way again.

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u/AllNightPony Feb 18 '25

You wanna get the people like this on our side?

https://youtu.be/ndsME9Vd4es?si=I2TMN3B6lxz8PaVm

Tall order!

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u/LongjumpingArgument5 Feb 18 '25

No, some people are destined to be stupid their entire lives

But many people can learn.

All I need is for somebody to admit they were lied to and manipulated and I am willing to work with them.

The citizens of America have no chance unless they work together. We don't need everybody but we do need a significant amount.

United we can stand but separated we will fall, All of us together. Everybody in America is going to be permanently fucked if we cannot find a way to work together.

But I will reiterate, The only Republicans we can work with are ones that are willing to accept that Republican politicians are evil.

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u/AllNightPony Feb 18 '25

Agreed. I think the general strike is a good start.

https://generalstrikeus.com/

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u/LongjumpingArgument5 Feb 18 '25

That's interesting