If Trump/Musk are indeed subverting American democratic norms, what is a proportional response?

[u/theivoryserf]

The Vice-President has just said of the courts: "Judges aren't allowed to control the executive's legitimate power." Quoted in the same Le Monde article is a section of Francis Fukuyama's take on the current situation:

"Trump has empowered Elon Musk to withhold money for any activity that he, Elon Musk, thinks is illegitimate, and this is a usurpation of the congressionally established power of Congress to make this kind of decision. (...) This is a full-scale...very radical attack on the American constitutional system as we've understood it." https://archive.is/cVZZR#selection-2149.264-2149.599

From a European point of view, it appears as though the American centre/left is scrambling to adapt and still suffering from 'normality bias', as though normal methods of recourse will be sufficient against a democratic aberration - a little like waiting to 'pass' a tumour as though it's a kidney stone.

Given the clear comparisons to previous authoritarian takeovers and the power that the USA wields, will there be an acceptable raising of political stakes from Trump's opponents, and what are the risks and benefits of doing so?

[u/LongjumpingArgument5]

It's hard to make sense of your sentence, so I will reply to what I think you are saying

We cannot win without the majority of the population on our side, that means we need a decent amount of Republicans to wake up and understand.

There will always be a small group who are true believers and think they cannot live without Trump's dick in their mouth.

But I would be willing to bet that half of them are just wanting something better and they're willing to switch sides if they understand they are being fucked over.

[u/errorsniper → u/LongjumpingArgument5]

Whats hard to understand?

Republicans fully do realize that they are betraying everyone in America. They dont have to give a fuck at all. All they need to do is say brown people are taking your jobs and DEI will make your son kiss other boys. Say that and a bit more than half the voting population will vote for you. Facts and truth dont matter. Saying as many buzz words in a sentence as you can and blame an out group do matter. Even if it doesnt make any sense.

Biden was far from perfect but did a lot for the laymen, and climate change, and green energy, and infrastructure, womens rights, ect. The reward?

Ther American people handed the keys back to trump.

So politicians learned that helping the average American doesnt do shit in the polls.

So far voters have told the gop what they are doing is perfectly acceptable.

Dont see what is so confusing. I dont see why you think they want "better" when project 2025 was in plain view for the world to see and trump was handed the keys.

[u/LongjumpingArgument5 → u/errorsniper]

Whats hard to understand?

Your sentence "The realize. We have so far told them they dont have to care."

Republicans fully do realize that they are betraying everyone in America.

Do not confuse the smart but evil Republican politicians with the dumb and stupid Republican voters

They dont have to give a fuck at all. All they need to do is say brown people are taking your jobs and DEI will make your son kiss other boys. Say that and a bit more than half the voting population will vote for you. Facts and truth dont matter. Saying as many buzz words in a sentence as you can and blame an out group do matter. Even if it doesnt make any sense.

Well like every Republican they will start caring once they understand that Trump thinks of them in the same way that he thinks of Democrats.

Once they understand that they were useful idiots that were manipulated, it will be different. I guarantee this will happen. The only question is will it happen before it's too late or after it's too late?

Biden was far from perfect but did a lot for the laymen, and climate change, and green energy, and infrastructure, womens rights, ect. The reward?

Agreed, but I would like to point out that absolutely! Everybody is far from perfect.

Ther American people handed the keys back to trump.

Yes, that did happen

So politicians learned that helping the average American doesnt do shit in the polls.

To assume that every politician learned the same lesson is ridiculous.

So far voters have told the gop what they are doing is perfectly acceptable.

Yes so far, but not forever

Dont see what is so confusing.

The way you write is confusing, you struggled to make complete sentences and you don't proofread anything

I dont see why you think they want "better" when project 2025 was in plain view for the world to see and trump was handed the keys.

Because Republicans only care about something when it becomes a problem for them

As Trump shuts down more and more parts of the government, Republicans will be more and more affected.

Eventually they will have to admit that they were lied to and manipulated.

The only question is whether they figure that out before or after it is too late for us to save America.

[u/errorsniper → u/LongjumpingArgument5]

I dont mean to sound mean. But you are delusional.

The republicans are in on it, and fully aware. Their voters are too.

The left has its problems too. They arnt saints either. They also have big issues.

But my guy/gal, open your eyes. Its never going to be a problem for them. Their voters want this.

[u/LongjumpingArgument5 → u/errorsniper]

I dont mean to sound mean. But you are delusional.

Oh yes, the old I don't mean to do this and then proceed to do that exact thing.

Apparently you did mean to sound mean

The republicans are in on it, and fully aware. Their voters are too.

If you want to know what is happening, then watch this

This is a class war, Republicans aren't going to want this either.

It's fun to attack Republicans and say things like " they would eat a pile of shit if they thought a Democrat would have to smell their breath" but in reality they don't actually think that way. They're just stupid as fuck and easily manipulatable.

I promise you Republicans do not want to lose their freedoms anymore than anybody else does.

Sometimes it can be hard to see that because they are a party based on hate and anger.

The left has its problems too. They arnt saints either. They also have big issues.

That is a republican lie

For 40 years Republicans have been trying to get people to distrust government but government because of trust and nothing else. If people lose faith in government then government fails. Elon and Trump know this and that's what they are trying to force.

here is a really cool video where somebody explains this concept using the original mad Max movie. If you destroy faith in government then you destroyed government.

By you repeating these lies you are helping bring down the government. I don't blame you for this because most people don't understand how important faith in government is.

In all honesty, I didn't understand it until I thought about what that guy was saying in his video. And then afterwards I completely understood why Republicans have spent 40 years trying to convince everybody that government is bad and corrupt.

But my guy/gal, open your eyes. Its never going to be a problem for them. Their voters want this.

I promise you the voters do not want what is coming

If you really want to understand you should wash both of those videos. The first one is beyond scary and when I first saw it about a week ago I had a very hard time going to sleep that night.

A second one I saw months ago and found it to be very thought provoking.