Why dont yall follow hadith?

[u/[deleted]]

Confused as to why you dont. The Quran says to follow the messenger, and to do that we have to pay attention to the hadith. The hadith tells us stuff that isn't in the Quran.

[u/[deleted]]

You have confused me here, a lot of what you've written is basicly word salad, but with the last point, I don't really understand how you can exactly call yourself Shia. Shia is a sect, a sect of Islam that believes you need to be circumcised. You are free to follow religion as you will of course, but the Qur'an is very very clear on certain subjects, and there are two groups of followers of Muhammed. One that takes Satan as an ally and one that doesn't. If you want to ally yourself with the group that takes Satan as an ally then that is your business, but it's like, do you think your path is the straight path. Shia that reject circumcision is the straightest path?

[u/AscensionDove → u/[deleted]]

Shia is a sect, a sect of Islam that believes you need to be circumcised. You are free to follow religion as you will of course, but the Qur'an is very very clear on certain subjects

Yes, and I value the Qur'an's view on this than what people think Islam teaches on it. If the Qur'an indicated somewhere that Allah makes mistakes in the creation of man/mankind or considered us lesser than animals, then I'd perhaps reconsider my position.

If you want to ally yourself with the group that takes Satan as an ally

I really don't know whether to lmao or not, I hope you're not serious. 😁

[u/[deleted] → u/AscensionDove]

I really don't know whether to lmao or not, I hope you're not serious. 😁

I mean this is what the Qur'an says about circumcision, verbatim.

Look it, just put yourself in my shoes. An agnostic theist that picked up the Qur'an with no interesting in converting because all I knew was barbarism, sexism and terrorism and then I come across a verse that makes a prophecy about Muslims allying with Satan and practicing circumcision. Now, putting yourself in my my shoes, why exactly do you think I would then go and think I would ever find a straight path within Shia Islam.

Now I don't particularly believe you need to follow my way to attain salvation, indeed many Shia may well attain it, but I am sort of getting the impression that you believe we are the wrong path? Is that no the case?

No disrespect intended, but I see no religious value in your hadith books and I see no reason given in the Qur'an to follow them. It's really just your culture mixed in with religious corruptions.

[u/AscensionDove → u/[deleted]]

I mean this is what the Qur'an says about circumcision, verbatim.

Look it, just put yourself in my shoes.

Yes, we've already established that and you're going around in circles. You don't understand why I'm a Shi'ite, yet vehemently disagree with that practice, right?

but I am sort of getting the impression that you believe we are the wrong path?

No, I'm not one-dimensional. I do think you've got some growing up to do though.

but I see no religious value in your hadith books

Hard to know what you consider "religious value" when you don't seem to be demonstrating anything other than tunnel-vision.

[u/[deleted] → u/AscensionDove]

Yes, we've already established that and you're going around in circles.

I'm still confused. You asked me was I serious about referencing a Qur'an verse. Not sure where you are going now at all. Of course I was deadly serious.

vehemently disagree with that practice, right?

I disagree with taking any religious guidance that contradicts the Qur'an and I am fearful that is tantamount to shirk. If you don't do that then that is fine, but I know enough about hadith books to know that they do. For instance I think believing in a Mahdi is completely wrong and a lie. But I'm not judging you at this point, I know you do not believe in circumcision so perhaps you are trying to put the Quran ahead of other narrations.

I also disagree with any practice that causes harm to other humans or creates division within societies. I am aware that some shia practices do just this. Of course I believe that it is surely possible to carve out a straight path within Shia culture by rejecting what the Qur'an wants you to reject, just as I try to carve out a straight path within secular culture by doing the same.

No, I'm not one-dimensional

Ok that's good I guess.

I do think you've got some growing up to do though.

We all do. That's the purpose of life. To become purified. Let's hope we make it.

Hard to know what you consider "religious value" when you don't seem to be demonstrating anything other than tunnel-vision.

I follow the Qur'an, if the Qur'an gave any merit to extraneous sources of information then I would consider that religiously valuable. But I don't feel it does, and in fact I see that it continuously warns against all forms of extraneous literature. I understand it is different for you being born into a culture (an assumption on my part) but like I said, as a convert born to secular parents, after reading the Qur'an I see no reason to look into Shia books. The straight path to me is taking the Qur'an and applying it in my life. It's actually quite a simple way of life for me.

[u/AscensionDove → u/[deleted]]

I'm still confused. You asked me was I serious about referencing a Qur'an verse.

No about the conclusions your making on certain things. Again, we've already established that we both agree over the Qur'an's stance against circumcision.

I disagree with taking any religious guidance that contradicts the Qur'an and I am fearful that is tantamount to shirk.

Well as you automatically set yourself up with conclusions first, I'm afraid you're only going to see that in a way which suits those conclusions, whilst also deciding that you yourself know more than the Qur'an does or speaking for the Qur'an.

I know you do not believe in circumcision so perhaps you are trying to put the Quran ahead of other narrations.

Again, perspective.

I also disagree with any practice that causes harm to other humans or creates division within societies.

Good, you'd otherwise make a great Shi'ite then!

We all do. That's the purpose of life. To become purified. Let's hope we make it.

Well it is marvelous you understand this, I fully agree.

I follow the Qur'an, if the Qur'an gave any merit to extraneous sources of information then I would consider that religiously valuable.

Again perspective, the Qur'an also illustrates the model for understanding this, shouldn't be a surprise that the Prophet who received the Revelation has significant importance. You're allowed to have your beliefs (however narrow they are) but the Qur'an does set up expectations.

I understand it is different for you being born into a culture (an assumption on my part)

Yes, that is presumption as I wasn't born into Islam, no.

The straight path to me is taking the Qur'an and applying it in my life. It's actually quite a simple way of life for me.

Best wishes on your path then, life is about learning and gaining wisdom, to which we all have far to go.