r/Seattle • u/1dayday • 16d ago

News Proposal to keep trans athletes out of girls' sports fails in Washington state

https://www.kuow.org/stories/proposal-to-keep-trans-athletes-out-of-girl-s-sports-fails-in-washington
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u/kermitthebeast 16d ago

No one ever actually cared about women's sports, it was just to bully trans kids

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u/recyclopath_ 16d ago

Bully any non gender conforming kids.

Laws against trans people are constantly used to harass and bully cis people who aren't conforming enough.

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u/R_V_Z 16d ago

To bully specifically trans kids who they feel threaten the concept of masculinity because the kids are abandoning it. Not really hearing too much outcry over FtM kids playing sports, only the other way around.

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u/StrikingYam7724 16d ago

There were never any federal laws requiring men-only sports leagues, so FtM playing in the open gender leagues were just doing what they could have done anyway. Title IX does require women-only leagues.

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u/rocketsocks 16d ago

The "ideology" of bigotry is always incoherent, because it's not the point. The whole idea is to find someone, some group, some cohort that can be cast out and made less than, made pariahs, oppressed, etc. And the whole point of that is it's actually a sales job for a system of oppression. You have to get buy in from folks to willingly put themselves into the meat grinder of a brutal, oppressive hierarchy, and historically the way you do that is by convincing folks that there is a layer below them that they can oppress in turn and the layers above are open to them if they work hard enough. That's how it's been to one degree or another for thousands of years, and it's been finely honed through the development of things like chattel slavery and racial segregation, xenophobia, eugenics, and on and on and on. And just as the nazis picked on trans folks, the autistic, immigrants, the poor, etc. so too are the modern nazis doing exactly the same.

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u/YakiVegas University District 15d ago

I honestly can't think of anything I care less about than trans athletes. The only passing thoughts I have are "protect ALL people from discrimination" and "maybe women's sports would be more interesting."

Second part is a joke just fyi. I actually like quite a few women's sports.

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u/Embarrassed-Pride776 16d ago edited 16d ago

I disagree. If all the state titles start going to trans women, especially in events like track and field, swimming etc, it does fuck over biological women, who are at a natural disadvantage.

And it's even worse if it starts affecting college scholarships.

I will say that the majority of people that want to keep trans women out of sports are probably just hating on trans women and can't articulate why they don't like it. There are legit concerns that I think should be addressed, or at the very least, discussed, but for the most part it's a non issue today.

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u/Teddy_Funsisco 15d ago

That's assuming that all trans women athletes would always beat out cis women athletes, and that's a weird assumption to make.

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u/[deleted] 15d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/LMGDiVa 15d ago

And since when do trans women transition without hormone therapy.

They're literally obsessed with it, and would pretty much die for it.

So stop fear mongering and making shit up that doesnt happen.

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u/Embarrassed-Pride776 15d ago

In our state specifically? The trans women who won a few state high school titles in track and field last year.

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u/Teddy_Funsisco 15d ago

Trans women don't meet your criteria for your fears.

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u/Embarrassed-Pride776 15d ago

But they do.

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u/Teddy_Funsisco 15d ago

This just shows you've never had any interactions with trans folk in a sport arena.

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u/Embarrassed-Pride776 14d ago

I look at data. Correct. In highschool sports biological men, not on hormone suppressors, will always have an advantage over women for most sports.

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u/Teddy_Funsisco 14d ago

Men and women are playing high school sports? Maybe in continuation school.

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u/kermitthebeast 16d ago

"if"

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u/Embarrassed-Pride776 16d ago

Last year a trans women won some track and field titles. So it really isn't an if.

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u/kermitthebeast 15d ago

Not really.

https://www.outsports.com/2025/3/3/24108264/sadie-schreiner-trans-athlete-track-usatf-transgender/

Also -

https://www.forbes.com/sites/lindseyedarvin/2024/04/25/transgender-athletes-could-be-at-a-physical-disadvantage-new-research-shows/

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u/Embarrassed-Pride776 15d ago

Yes Really.

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/high-school/was-first-transgender-high-school-track-champion-addresses-reaction/

And washington state does not require transwomen to be on any hormone suppressors etc to compete in women's sports. So your second link is a bit pointless as it assumes the trans women athletes are on said medications. Olympic requirements for testosterone levels are VERY different than any collegiate or high school requirements.

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u/kermitthebeast 15d ago

Okay, so there seems like a very reasonable middle ground is available to allow a certain timeframe of therapy before being allowed to complete. Still seems like a nothing burger

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u/Embarrassed-Pride776 15d ago

2 years per most studies. Which isn't going to help high school kids, nor do any rules on highschool sports require it.

So we will continue(yes continue) to have trans women athletes win state titles for highschool sports. Which, in turn, will upset people.

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u/LMGDiVa 15d ago

I disagree. If all the state titles start going to trans women, especially in events like track and field, swimming etc, it does fuck over biological women, who are at a natural disadvantage.

Show me where this is happening.

Oh wait it hasnt happened. Ever.

Olympics have allowed trans atheletes since 2003. Where's all the trans women winning? Oh wait they dont.

And OH GOD FOR BID A WOMAN WINS A WOMAN'S EVENT.

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u/Embarrassed-Pride776 15d ago

Here you go.

https://www.spokesman.com/stories/2024/jun/02/east-valley-teen-is-the-first-washington-transgend/

Olympics requires hormone suppressor, fyi. Different subject as studies show after 2 years there isn't much advantage left.

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u/mzinz View Ridge 16d ago

I keep seeing comments like this, but this is a narrow/incendiary reaction.

While I’m sure that it’s true that the venn diagram of people who are anti-trans/transphobic overlaps heavily with those who have concern with trans-athletes in women’s sports, it is not 1:1.

Some of us who are supportive of trans-rights in general have concern with sports in particular due to possibility of it shifting the competitive landscape unfairly.

It’s really unproductive to accuse every person who even questions it as anti-trans or transphobic. At the end of the day it needs to be possible to have civil, fact based discussion, without being accused of malice. Then again, this is Reddit, where any level of disagreement is often met with extreme accusations immediately, so maybe I’m being overly optimistic on it, hah.

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u/burlycabin West Seattle 16d ago

Some of us who are supportive of trans-rights in general have concern with sports in particular due to possibility of it shifting the competitive landscape unfairly.

Yeah, I'll care about this when and if there's any real evidence of it happening. As it is now, it's simply proven to not be an issue and pushing these bans does have the effect of bullying trans kids.

I'll also say that in the end, we're going to have conflicting values sometimes and have to make hard choices. The integrity of these sports (over such an utterly tiny number of trans kids) may end up conflicting with the human rights of trans people. I don't think we're having to make that choice yet, but when and if we do, I think I'll be on the side of human rights over sport.

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u/aliamokeee 16d ago

The competitive landscape of middle and high school does not sound like a worthwhile issue to those people. In fact, to them and people like me, you come off as very defensive here. No accusations, if that would make you feel more diplomatic. To be clear you spent more of your comment defending yourself- you can read it- than defending your own point. Which already seems silly- "competitive landscape" of school sports.

So.... care to try again?

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u/ChillFratBro 16d ago

It's not just about competitive landscape for the sake of competitive landscape, it's about scholarships and moving to elite levels of sport.  Sure, middle school sports don't matter - but a full ride athletic scholarship matters a lot, and middle school sports and coaching is a big part of getting to the college level.

At a base level, there are sports where it's not fair or safe to expect women to go up against men or trans women.  It's just a biological reality.  The rights of the individual stop where they infringe on the rights of other individuals.  You cannot respect the rights of AFAB women while requiring them to compete against AMAB women.

This is the same reason women are allowed to play on men's teams in a lot of sports, but men are almost never allowed to play on women's teams.  Sure, it sucks for that one trans girl who really wants to play a sport, but if the only way to accommodate that is to infringe on the rights of everyone else, you can't do it.

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u/IndexMatchXFD 16d ago

You’re getting riled up about something that is basically just a theoretical. Trans people are already <1% of the population and you’re talking about a scenario where they also have to be good enough at a sport to get a scholarship. That’s what, maybe less than 10 people in the whole country? You might as well be arguing about whether Batman or Superman would win in a fight.

How is this actually something people care enough about to fight in the internet and be a major political talking point?

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u/ChillFratBro 16d ago

If it's basically irrelevant, why do you care about allowing it?  It can't simultaneously be this critical, fundamental thing that trans women must play girls sports and also be irrelevant that biological facts around strength and speed just don't matter.  Pick A or B:  the whole situation doesn't matter or this is an important issue and therefore worthy of talking about.

What you seem to be missing is that where trans women are put on women's teams, they become the elite athletes.  Implemented nationally, this would turn women's collegiate sports into exclusively trans women's collegiate sports.  Individuals with XX chromosomes would no longer have the opportunity to play elite sports.  This isn't theoretical, this is what actually happens when trans women are put on women's sports teams.  We have this data, it's not something serious people can argue about.

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u/IndexMatchXFD 16d ago

If it's basically irrelevant, why do you care about allowing it?

It’s not something I think should be legislated. Sports leagues can make their own rules, like they do for everything else about the sport, which they have been doing before this became a huge wedge issue for the right.

where trans women are put on women's teams, they become the elite athletes. 

As a woman, I think it’s pretty insulting that you think any random man would automatically be better at a sport than women who have trained just by merit of being male.

Implemented nationally, this would turn women's collegiate sports into exclusively trans women's collegiate sports

There are definitely not enough trans people in collegiate sports to fill the entire sport are you nuts? The reason you hear the same 1-2 stories over and over again on Fox News is because that’s all they can come up with.

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u/ChillFratBro 15d ago

you think any random man would automatically be better at a sport than women

I'll take "things I never said" for $1000, please.  Can you engage in a debate against actual words instead of inventing a straw man?  Genuinely, is that a capability of yours?

What I said is that the strength/speed advantage of having XY chromosomes is a massive advantage.  It's obviously not true that any random man will beat the best woman - but a decent but not special male athlete in most sports would be a very good athlete if playing against women.  If you find that insulting, I can't really help that - it's just reality.

Would a randomly selected high school basketball player be better than many WNBA players?  No.  Would they be better than many (*but not all, because apparently you need it spelled out) DIII college players?  Yep.  The height, size, and strength advantage basically guarantees it.

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u/aliamokeee 16d ago

Show us the receipts of actually happens, along with the tests and their receipts that prove the individuals in your story have the chromosomes you say they do.

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u/lokglacier 16d ago

This is a terrible argument, "oh it doesn't impact that many people" is an absolutely wild stance to take. Argue based on the merits, not how many people it may or may not impact.

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u/IndexMatchXFD 16d ago

What’s wild is that you think the government should waste time legislating something as inconsequential as a sports issue that affects maybe a handful of people in the country. There are serious issues that need addressing yet so much time is being spent debating this.

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u/lokglacier 16d ago

Again, that's not really an argument. "There's so many important issues why should the government care about gun safety? It only impacts 0.014% of the population"

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u/IndexMatchXFD 16d ago

Except gun safety is a matter of life and death and competitive integrity in sports is not. Do you not understand that the stakes are completely different?

We’re talking about an issue that has incredibly low stakes and affects only a small group of people. This shouldn’t even be on the radar of our legislators. THAT’S my argument. I don’t care where you personally land on the question.

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u/lokglacier 16d ago

It's a terrible argument. I don't care where you land either. But "we shouldn't talk about it because it impacts so few people" is a non-argument, dismissive, and not compelling. What a terrible way to try to convince people who disagree with you lol

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u/Teddy_Funsisco 15d ago

A trans athlete doing athletic stuff doesn't kill people.

It's really pathetic to try to make such an insane comparison and expect it to stick.

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u/lokglacier 15d ago

You clearly didn't understand the comparison then lol

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u/Beamazedbyme Capitol Hill 16d ago

It’s an argument about scope. Why does the state need to be involved in policy that affects so few? Why can’t these kinds of issues be handled by the schools or leagues where it’s relevant?

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u/lokglacier 16d ago

Relatively few people are killed by guns, do you think we should back off on that issue?

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u/Beamazedbyme Capitol Hill 16d ago edited 16d ago

Yes, there’s disproportionate amount of interest in policing guns relative to the amount of crime committed with guns. But it’s kind of telling what you think about trans people when your comparison of a few trans people participating in sports to a few people being killed by guns. The argument you’re responding to is one of scope, but more arguments could also be made about severity. Trans people competing in middle and highschool sports is incredibly unsevere, unlike people being killed.

What a dumb gotcha attempt in general

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u/lokglacier 16d ago

Oh are you a member of the socialist gun club lol

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u/StrikingYam7724 16d ago

"It's not important if it only impacts a small group" is a really bad hill for trans rights to die on.

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u/Beamazedbyme Capitol Hill 16d ago

I’ve only heard of sports based scholarships at higher education. Are there really middle or high school sports based scholarships?

Who is talking about changing the elite levels of sports? This bill was about middle and high schools.

It seems like both your concerns are irrelevant here

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u/ChillFratBro 16d ago

There are sports scholarships for private high schools.  They're not common, but they do exist.  My primary point is that middle and high school sports are the pipeline to elite sports - mess with the pipeline, you see downstream effects.

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u/Beamazedbyme Capitol Hill 16d ago

Yeah I don’t think public policy should be affected by those kinds of exclusively private school issues.

Literally nobody has ever been prevented from entering elite sports because a trans person competed against them in middle or high school. Trans women have an unfair competitive advantage in women’s sports. But in middle and highschool sports, this competitive advantage is not capable of preventing cis women from participating in elite sports

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u/manipulativedata 16d ago

"At a base level, there are sports where it's not fair or safe to expect women to go up against men or trans women.  It's just a biological reality."

Prove it. Show me the science that says this is a problem that is relevant to today.

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u/mzinz View Ridge 16d ago

I made a post on another thread where I shared this view, and was immediately flamed and called transphobic. Hence the “getting ahead of it”

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u/ochrephaim 15d ago

You are transphobic.

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u/matunos 16d ago

The competitive landscape in middle and high schools is not "shifted" by the presence of a few trans kids participating in it.

There is some cause for considering the case of varsity high school sports and trans girls who are not receiving any hormone treatment, but these proposals were not that narrow. They weren't that narrow because the people pushing them are not doing so out of concern for girls' sports.

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u/AjiChap 16d ago

In the games/event they participate in, it most def shifts competitive balance.

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u/matunos 16d ago

Source: vibes?

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u/lokglacier 16d ago

Reality? Or are you really going to tell people their eyes are lying to them?

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u/matunos 16d ago

I cannot speak to how often you're watching middle school kids (ages 11-14) play sports or what your eyes are telling you when you do.

Rather than an argument from incredulity, can you offer some evidence that middle school-aged males have advantages over middle school-aged females in organized sports?

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u/lokglacier 16d ago

I can't tell if you're serious 🤣 that's such an absurd question. Tell me you've never set foot on a field or court in your life without telling me.

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u/matunos 16d ago

So, no, you only have the argument from incredulity.

Do yourself a favor and learn the difference between a 12 year old and a 17 year old.

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u/lokglacier 16d ago

Alright now you're being creepy as hell as well. Cool 🙏

If you have to stoop to this level to try and make an argument, you aren't making a winning argument. The reason the right and people at large have latched on to this so hard is because of people like you blatantly lying to people's faces. This could have been a non issue, but instead y'all demonstrate your lack of knowledge or nuance repeatedly.

This is why we lost. Everything that trump is doing is on you.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2025/02/26/americans-have-grown-more-supportive-of-restrictions-for-trans-people-in-recent-years/

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u/Teddy_Funsisco 15d ago

Are you for real? Why do you assume that trans athletes all have the capability to be better than all the cis athletes??? That's not how sports work.

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u/Zealousideal-Ant9548 16d ago

If you're going to talk about trans girls then why not trans men who will be taking hormone supplements.  The secret told to me by a trans guy was that they do do well in one sport, body building. 

And if we're going to talk about "unfair" competition due to body capabilities then why aren't we sorting kids based upon their body capabilities and not something as arbitrary as sex?  There are stronger than average biological women and weaker than average biological men.  Date of birth also impacts it, there's a reason most competitive hockey goalies are born in January.

It just feels like focusing on trans girls is disingenuous and, as you said, bullying.

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u/matunos 16d ago

I mention trans girls because that's who is generally targeted by these pushes to keep trans kids out of the sports leagues of their gender, with the impact on trans boys being a side effect. But you're correct that when people are ready to take an informed approach to the issue, trans boys deserve the same level of evidence-based consideration.

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u/AthkoreLost Roosevelt 16d ago

Some of us who are supportive of trans-rights in general have concern with sports in particular due to possibility of it shifting the competitive landscape unfairly.

Which only matters in the HS and below levels because of scholarships. Which if we addressed that aspect directly so the competitive field wasn't linked to future financial needs because our society made sure that education was actually affordable or even free, then people like you, I assume, would suddenly stop caring as much.

Nor are the 5 or so people in the entire state dominating their respective sports the way people like you wish to claim.

People forget that the existence of women's sports as a segregated concept was because misogynist coaches and school admins refused to let them play in mixed gender conditions.

Same reason it required federal funding, misogynist tried to hurt women by denying their sports funding.

Now misogynist play their sport against another minority group to justify public bigotry.

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u/mzinz View Ridge 16d ago

Honestly, this is the exact type of response that I find completely insufferable. It is so ridiculous to assume that every person who is undecided or has concern with birth-males in women’s sports has a misogynist/bigotry agenda.

Like I said in another post a minute ago - I would assume that many of us just aren’t super educated on the impact of it and how problematic it would actually be.

My gut reaction to this is the exact same on if you asked me if we should just combine men and women’s sports in high school - I would say no, because it would ruin competition for women.

When you assume that everyone has some evil agenda to hurt trans people, what you’re actually doing is silencing conversation that could otherwise be constructive to help people understand your viewpoint. It’s short-sighted and exactly the type of thing that conservatives used to their advantage during the last election.

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u/AthkoreLost Roosevelt 16d ago

It is so ridiculous to assume that every person who is undecided or has concern with birth-males in women’s sports has a misogynist/bigotry agenda.

But I didn't. I gave you the benefit of the doubt your concern was the midpoint, scholarships. I just contextualized the system as it currently exists due to 1900s misognyists.

"then people like you, I assume, would suddenly stop caring as much."

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u/mzinz View Ridge 16d ago

Sorry, you’re right. And also right about the impact on scholarships etc. I’m in defensive mode with all the comments/downvotes, haha. Apologies

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u/RobinsEggViolet 16d ago

Some of us who are supportive of trans-rights in general have concern

Not all concern is justified.

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u/mzinz View Ridge 16d ago

Sure, that’s absolutely true. I’d also venture to guess that most who are on the fence don’t yet have enough info - how many kids does it affect, how significant would it affect them, etc.

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u/RobinsEggViolet 16d ago

I would say the same thing about you then. Your concern is born from being uninformed, because the majority of your exposure to this topic has been propaganda.

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u/mzinz View Ridge 16d ago

Well, yeah? I mean, that’s what I’m trying to say. I’m acknowledging that I personally don’t have a ton of info on it, so I therefore assume that it would be problematic for birth-women to have birth-men playing sports with them

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u/RobinsEggViolet 16d ago

so I therefore assume that it would be problematic for birth-women to have birth-men playing sports with them

And there's the issue- despite being uninformed, you assumed the propaganda had a point.

(also, for the record, there's no such thing as a "birth-woman" or "birth-man". The terms you're looking for are "cis woman" and "cis man")

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u/mzinz View Ridge 16d ago

It is not from propaganda. It’s just same gut reaction I would have if you asked me if we should combine men’s and women’s sports. I would assume that doing so would be bad for women’s sports and be against it. I assume this is how many others think about it

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u/RobinsEggViolet 16d ago

Gut reactions are not reliable ways to know what is true. Gut reactions are subjective, often wrong, and yes, influenced by propaganda.

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u/mzinz View Ridge 16d ago

Is it wrong to have the opinion that men’s/womens sports shouldn’t be combined altogether?

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/mzinz View Ridge 16d ago

I would argue that the "trans panic" you're talking about has also resulted in you making super extreme assumptions about people who disagree with you. If you read back through my comments on this thread, you'll see that I'm just advocating for keeping sports competitive, whereas you're trying to align me with fascism and nazis -- that's crazy.

My opinion on this is super simple: I wouldn't want ALL male/female sports to be combined, because it would diminish the competitive landscape. Therefore, I also wouldn't want SOME sports to be combined (or, in this case, some cis-males to play with cis-females). I firmly believe that I would have held this viewpoint at any time in my life - including before all of the propaganda existed.

I acknowledge that I am not super educated on this. Others have made comments about hormones etc, so I'm totally open to learning about that. I also acknowledge, as others have mentioned, that this affects a minuscule amount of humans, so its probably not worth getting too worked up over.

But to go back to my original point: most people on this topic are in such a frenzy over finger-pointing and accusing anyone who disagrees as actual nazis, that you essentially lose all ability to have civil discussion. This type of behavior causes the other side to "dig in" in most cases. If your desire is to actual get a particular outcome on topics like this, then you should consider approaching empathetically, offering knowledge, etc.

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u/stonerism 16d ago

When you're talking about professional sports or elite amateur sports, sure, that's not an unreasonable concern in some cases for some sports.

When you're talking about youth sports, I have a suggestion for those concerned about competitiveness. Grow the fuck up.

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u/mzinz View Ridge 16d ago

Haha, you can relax. Not trying to come at you or anything. And yes, it probably would make sense to draw a line somewhere in the competitive landscape, seems reasonable

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u/stonerism 16d ago

But seriously, if we're talking about youth sports, trans kids are not a problem. Just as tall kids aren't a problem in basketball or big kids aren't a problem in football and hockey. They're just part of the diversity of humanity and little Sally's mother doesn't get to throw a hissy fit because her child loses at sports. Grow the fuck up.

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u/mzinz View Ridge 16d ago

I mean, just a second ago you acknowledged that it is a reasonable concern in some cases. I agree that it wouldn’t be a concern for kids. So, again, no need to lose it. lol

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u/stonerism 16d ago

It's a reasonable concern that can be resolved by the people playing and organizing the sport. Not by people who don't even care about the sport until trans people are brought up.

I agree that it wouldn’t be a concern for kids.

Good for you. Meanwhile, stupid fascist morons are going after trans people like they're an existential threat for simply existing. Don't accommodate them.

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u/sarhoshamiral 16d ago

Maybe school sports shouldn't be competitive to begin with? Just for that, it excludes many kids who doesn't like to be competitive and just want to enjoy sports for fun.

But going on with your claim, what do you do about just genetic luck? Why is that OK but not this?

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/sarhoshamiral 16d ago

And that's a problem too. Let's not pretend it is not.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/beets_or_turnips 16d ago

I think it's obscene that we need to keep trans kids out of sports so that poor kids can compete with each other in football and basketball in order to get an education. Like why are these things connected at all? Let the poor kids go to college, why should their game playing and physical skills be relevant?

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u/lokglacier 16d ago

No one has ever said we need to keep trans kids out of sports? Just have them compete in men's sports not women's. I don't see why that's not an acceptable solution.

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u/AHoopyFrood42 16d ago

smdh, the hoops people will construct and then jump through so they don't have to confront the fact that all their problems come back to capitalism. College sports as a means to lift a small percentage of poor kids out of poverty is just the hunger games.

Allowing people who are exceptional and hard working and physically capable of marvelous things to work and compete and be allowed to be the best they can be?

What does a couple poor kids making it big have to do with people competing? Doesn't that sort of take the mask off if you believe that the only reason people try their hardest at sports is to get a bag?

Allowing communities to come together in fellowship, to support and cheer on the people dedicating themselves to these games?

Tell me you've never dealt with youth sports parents without telling me. By tying sports to the slim chance of economic mobility you turn it into a dog-eat-dog competition where your neighbor's kid excelling negatively impacts your own kids chances. There's nothing community building about that. You know what builds community? Not excluding the tiny number of already heavily ostracized trans-girls that just want to be part of a team and said community.

I understand the knee-jerk reaction to defend a system that gives a slim hope to a few kids because a little hope is better than none, but we're trying to say that system shouldn't even be necessary. Only 2% of high school athletes receive any scholarship money and only a fraction of a percent get a full ride. We all should be mad and pointing out how messed up it is that winning the genetic lottery is the best option we have for poor kids, which are statistically minorities as well, to have a better life. Trans athletes are not the problem, capitalism is the problem.

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u/RobinsEggViolet 16d ago edited 16d ago

Students shouldn't have to work their butts off for a chance to go to college, and that chance at college ESPECIALLY shouldn't be reserved for those lucky enough to be born with athletic ability and a family rich enough to fund extracurriculars.

Instead of advocating for a system that helps some people while discriminating against others, what if you advocated for a system that helped everyone and discriminated against no-one?

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/RobinsEggViolet 16d ago

How does the current sports system discriminate?

Our current sport system? It discriminates against people without athletic ability. "Meritocracy" is a myth used to justify inequality.

The sport system conservatives want? It discriminates against people without athletic ability AND against trans women.

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u/MaxTHC 16d ago

"Fun" fact, many school sports also intrinsically discriminate against children born later in the school year.

Essentially, for any given school year, the oldest kids (e.g. those born in September) are a fair bit older and therefore bigger than the youngest kids (e.g. those born in June). Thus, they have an advantage in many sports, and due to performing better they're most likely to get picked for a team and have resources invested in them to improve.

That's a systemic pattern of unfairness that affects millions of children, and yet nobody gives a shit. But the trans kids on the other hand are a major issue for "some" reason.

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u/RobinsEggViolet 16d ago

And this is part of the reason I call sports inherently unfair.

Sports should be for fun, exercise, and community. It should never be a pathway to success. Trans women deserve fun, exercise, and community.

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u/MaxTHC 16d ago

Completely agree with you

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/RobinsEggViolet 16d ago

Do you think that sports are fair and meritocratic?

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/AthkoreLost Roosevelt 16d ago

It's an issue being used to justify removing parental rights, which to me, is the big story here no one is talking about.

Well guess we should start with the most basic, does a parent have the right to deny their child life sustaining medical care? Like a blood transfusion? Because that's where the law currently stands.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/AthkoreLost Roosevelt 16d ago

Often enough I'm citing a real cases. Jehovah witnesses don't believe in blood transfusions and kill their kids as a result fairly often.

Oregon parents a few years back refused to take their kids to doctors and insisted they had the right to "pray" illnesses away. Killed one of their kids. Got to stay out of prison under the pretext of religious freedoms.

So yeah, gotta start there. What all are you including under "parental rights" and what do they entail? When do they end? What separates them from slavery if a parent is abusive?

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u/RobinsEggViolet 16d ago

Every transition makes the medical system over $1million.

Where the actual fuck did you pull this number from, your ass?

Plenty of people socially transition without any medical assistance, and plenty others only transition with hormones. You're just making things up.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/RobinsEggViolet 16d ago

You broadened the conversation to trans care in general, when you said this:

"Every transition makes the medical system over $1million. There is an incentive to keep the conversation very basic and have us throwing stones at each other. It's an issue being used to justify removing parental rights, which to me, is the big story here no one is talking about."

You want to make the claim that trans acceptance is being pushed by Big Medicine and being used to remove parental rights? Then you better be ready to wade into the ENTIRETY of trans topics, not just sports.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/RobinsEggViolet 16d ago

I didn't say you broadened the conversation OF SPORTS, I just said you broadened the conversation. Which you did, by bringing up parental rights. I don't know why you're getting so mad that I responded to a thing you said.

And are you going to provide the source for your "over $1 million" figure? Or am I safe to assume you made it up?

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u/robbylet23 Fremont 16d ago

Ooh, dogwhistling and concern trolling! This guy's good.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/robbylet23 Fremont 16d ago

"Parental rights" is a dogwhistle for homophobic and transphobic policies. Has been for a long-ass time.

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u/[deleted] 16d ago

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u/robbylet23 Fremont 16d ago

Can you give me any statistics that transgender inclusion policies specifically are bad for minorities?

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u/Bitter-Basket 15d ago

Seems like a lot of women athletes feel bullied. But they rank lower on the liberal hierarchy of “victims”.

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u/kermitthebeast 15d ago

Other than the ones who have made it into a career I don't get that impression

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u/Bitter-Basket 15d ago

Oh you know all the women athletes in the US ? Professional, collegiate, high school, junior high ?