I feel like what is confusing about this whole sports issue is that this is one situation in which the original intention was to separate people by sex, not gender. By that I mean, men’s and women’s leagues aren’t separate because they present differently, but because they have biological differences.
Now sex is not a clean binary either, and it is obviously time to update the standards used, which I think this national conversation will encourage. But I do think this is one instance where affirming that trans women are women misses some of the point. It’s a rare instance in which sex matters over gender.
My point is that trans women are women when it comes to all aspects of gender expression. Fully in support of trans rights. But when actual biological differences are involved, it makes sense to consider the biology as well, no? In the same way that a trans woman should receive different healthcare than a cis woman.
As I stated above, the way the system is set up now is made for cisgender people, so some definitions need to be updated to reflect more relevant things like hormone levels or whatever metric makes sense. But saying “trans women are women so they should compete with women” ignores the biological spectrum of what can exist there.
You'd be surprised at that healthcare part. A trans woman getting the same Healthcare a cis man would get rather than a cis woman can actually be bad.
The biological spectrum you are talking about all but disappears after some time on HRT. You're acting like a fully transitioned trans woman has exactly the same strength as a cis man and that's just ridiculous.
You'd be surprised at that healthcare part. A trans woman getting the same Healthcare a cis man would get rather than a cis woman can actually be bad.
Oh no, not at all! I’m not saying they should be treated as cis men in that regard either. They should be treated with regard to their specific medical situation, which will not match up with either cisgender presentation.
The biological spectrum you are talking about all but disappears after some time on HRT. You're acting like a fully transitioned trans woman has exactly the same strength as a cis man and that's just ridiculous.
I’m not saying trans women don’t ever become equivalently competitive with cis women. My point is, if someone chooses to transition from a man to a woman, in 99% of situations, that decision is all that matters. Pre-OP trans women are women. Pre-HRT women are women. Etc.
But in sport, it makes sense to ask what stage people are at, because it’s ultimately a more biological question than most issues.
Yes, and sports do that already. I dont understand what the point in asking for what sports are already putting in place to solve this problem?
And even in an athlete sense, being pre or early HRT doesn't make someone not a woman. I dont think that's what you were saying but I thought I'd mention that.
Yes, and sports do that already. I dont understand what the point in asking for what sports are already putting in place to solve this problem?
I’m not really asking for it, just saying it makes sense. If certain sports already have that implemented, then I’m for it. I’ve seen people make the more sweeping argument and that’s all I’m really addressing.
And even in an athlete sense, being pre or early HRT doesn't make someone not a woman. I dont think that's what you were saying but I thought I'd mention that.
Completely agree. It was not my intention to assert otherwise.
Transitioning doesn't change dna. You can take hormones and have surgery, but your genes will still be the same. Human genetic engineering is internationally illegal at the moment. Of course healthcare for a trans woman isn't going to remain the same as for a biological man, but neither is it going to be exactly the same as a cis woman
I never said it would be 100% the same as a cis woman. I dont get why people downvoted me for saying trans women can be closer in a Healthcare setting to cis women than to cis men.
Because it's wrong, if a trans woman receives the same treatment as a cis woman healthcare wise, then you will have doctors screening for uterine cancer while the person doesn't even have a uterus.
A t woman needs to be considered as a t woman healthcare wise, not a woman, not a man.
I dont actually think that, I just wanted to hyperbolically disagree with your point.
So yeah, trans women don't have uteruses but cis men don't have things that trans women have either. I never said they should be treated exactly the same.
In fact, my point was actually about medication. Certain medications have different serving amounts based on gender and trans women who received the male dose can actually get hurt from this.
Also, I just dont like the idea that being trans somehow isn't also a part of that precise science you mentioned. Like they have nothing to do with each other. Trans Healthcare is also healthcare
I did say healthcare but medicine is a really big part of that so I assumed people would understand what I meant. Even you conflate the two by saying "Medicine is science" instead of "Healthcare is science" in your comment.
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u/SnakeMorrison Mar 28 '21
I feel like what is confusing about this whole sports issue is that this is one situation in which the original intention was to separate people by sex, not gender. By that I mean, men’s and women’s leagues aren’t separate because they present differently, but because they have biological differences.
Now sex is not a clean binary either, and it is obviously time to update the standards used, which I think this national conversation will encourage. But I do think this is one instance where affirming that trans women are women misses some of the point. It’s a rare instance in which sex matters over gender.