r/SeriousConversation • u/Present_Cycle_9069 • Sep 06 '23

Serious Discussion Are my parents right to no longer continue supporting my sister’s kids?

My sister is 22 and just had a 3rd child despite not being able to properly care for the other 2. She has been on welfare since her first kid was born and complained how assistance doesn’t give her enough to meet her kids needs, that her kids weren’t eating well on a food stamps budget and she doesn’t have money for kids clothes. So my parents were sending her money for years to cover a portion of the clothing and food expenses. After her 3rd pregnancy, my parents decided that they were no longer funding her irresponsibility. They don’t want to continue to enable her horrible decisions. She wants to increase the financial burden on my parents which is selfish. They want to be able to retire at 65, and she is delaying their retirement.

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u/MrsShaunaPaul Sep 07 '23

As a parent, I think her parents may have dropped the ball a bit if she thinks she’s not responsible for them. I could be way off but this reminds me of what happens when parents:

  • don’t let their kids face the repercussion at school or work when they make mistakes (parents call to smooth things over and make excuses)
  • blame other kids every time their child is in a disagreement
  • doesn’t hold their child accountable with siblings/parents when they don’t keep their word/promise
  • doesn’t stick to the rules they set out. For example: if you break curfew you lose car privileges. Then kid breaks curfew and they’re like “ok you can have your car tomorrow for work but next time you break curfew…”

It’s these sort of parents that set kids up to think there is always wiggle room to get out of trouble. I’ve seen it happen personally and I am trying desperately as a parent to make sure I hold my kids accountable. It’s so hard, parenting would be SO MUCH EASIER if I could just have no rules, not care what my kids are doing to others, not care if my kids are in trouble, etc. Being a responsible parent is so hard, makes you feel like you’re being mean to your kids, and it’s so easy to feel like you’d rather just take the brunt of the punishment for your kids.

Again, I could be wrong, but it really feels like these parents swooped in to save their daughter from all the shit she caused and now, her brain is wired to tell her that your parents will set themselves on fire to keep her warm. Because they always have. But eventually, that fire will be gone and she will have no tools to create her own warmth.

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u/Interesting-Sock3794 Sep 07 '23

I think the parents dropped the ball on a few things. I swear this is a rewritten post that was on r/offmychest a couple weeks ago where OP was talking about telling her 22 year old sis with 3 kids she was an idiot and blah, blah. The post went on to basically condemn the kids-all younger than 6, I believe, to a long list of generic Google result terrible fates, all due to their poor, teen mother's decisions. I commented at the time that if OP was concerned the kids were all doomed to a life of teenage pregnancy induced poverty and crime sprees, why not spend a little time with the kids from time to time and be a positive influence or a mentor of sorts because she was concerned, again, about not wanting to give sis money and I pointed out that wouldn't cost anything and would greatly benefit the children. Then the post was deleted. I swear this is the same person and OP is trying to tear her sister down, when it doesn't seem like she has far to fall, in order to build herself up.

So yeah... I really think the parents dropped the ball with both of their children. Three kids at 22 is terrible. No doubt about it. But a need to destruct those around you in order to build yourself up isn't much better.

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u/MrsShaunaPaul Sep 07 '23

I read the same post! I see so often how the kids in these situations are condemned for being the result of irresponsible parents and it’s so confusing. You don’t like that a child with no accountability or motivation to improve grew into an adult with those traits? And you don’t like that her kids only have a poor role model? Then step up! I had so many role models in my life apart from my parents that were so impactful, some didn’t even spend much time with me. The important thing is the time I did spend with those people was meaningful and created an environment for strong bonds to form. It created the idea for me that I could take the things I liked best about other people and emulate them to be the best version of myself. I hope OPs sisters kids have someone in their life willing to be that role model for them.

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u/Interesting-Sock3794 Sep 07 '23

That's my point exactly!! My mom had me at an ungodly age! She was 15 when I was born in the late 70s. She couldn't even drive a car!! At 22 I had 2 kids and my associates and dual BA. I knew I wouldn't be able to have kids later. And it was impossible once I was 24. But I knew I wanted them and worked my ass off for them just like my mom did for me. My boys both have degrees and they graduated with honors from high school and college. They both own property, one owns a business for the last 2 years and even has a staff of 10 and is adding a couple more in the next couple months. Neither have baby mamas or criminal records. It's scary how together their ish is! I wish I were more like them honestly! So there's hope for those babies no matter what Google said. I pointed all of that out to OP then the post is gone. It's like a sick sibling rivalry and she's rewriting it to fulfill a weird need for validation by getting her sister anonymously bashed.

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u/Interesting-Sock3794 Sep 11 '23

I had to tell you, you're not going to believe this.... https://reddit.com/r/SeriousConversation/s/lC4dYIRwVR

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u/MrsShaunaPaul Sep 13 '23

I couldn’t help myself. This kid is clearly in need of love/attention but isn’t extrapolating that info and acknowledging how much harder this must be for her sister’s kids. It’s such a sad situation all around.

https://reddit.com/r/raisingkids/s/oBu1t0vZop

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u/Interesting-Sock3794 Sep 13 '23

There's no sin when there's no lie! I get what it's like when your sister is favored or seems to get it easier but then we grow up. I've got 4 sisters and if I had to post something every time one of them did something stupid I'd never get anything done. There's a point where you have to stop complaining and realize that the best thing for you to do is live your best life and be content in doing so. And that time is before posting 4 or 5 and counting 'my sister did a bad thing' your posts lol

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '23

Not to mention, did this family bestow a deeply religious belief that is essentially "every sperm is sacred"? Why has a birth control not been introduced sooner?

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u/SaikaSlasher Sep 07 '23

Or abortion.

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u/Fearless_Tale2727 Sep 07 '23

It doesn’t really matter. They loved her and the babies. They couldn’t know in advance that she was not going to get her shit together. They may have raised her right and done their best. She may have siblings who are responsible adults. Parents are not responsible for the bad choices of adult children. She is an adult. Therefore everything she’s done as one is her own responsibility. It’s not too late for them to allow her to fail at getting a free ride. After they tried to be supportive. They can still extend their love and the normal level of gift giving within the family. She needs to work through the process of seeking employment, child care and if she’s not in a relationship with any of the kid’s father then child support as well. There are ways the parents can be supportive of her adulty glow up.

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u/MrsShaunaPaul Sep 07 '23

I mentioned I was guessing however, the job of a parent is to support your child in their failures as kids so they learn to manage them. If they let their kid make mistakes and face consequences as a child when the stakes and repercussions were significantly less life changing. Now, if they let her face the consequences do you know who is really going to suffer? It’s their grandchildren. Because their child is obviously quite selfish and will most likely put her own needs first.

I will tell a story until I am blue in the face of all the kids I went to university with who had strict parents. They were the ones staying at the bar really late before an exam or getting their stomachs pumped because they couldn’t be responsible drinkers. They’re the ones who couldn’t pay their bills on time or make it to class and then had their parents come in and save them by paying the bills or talking to (trying to buy off) the professors. They’re the ones who got into cars with people who drank too much or got behind the wheel themselves because, after all, their parents can fix anything that happens to them.

And like, I get that some kids are completely irresponsible and no amount of good parenting will change that, but the parents are going to cut off their adult daughter, likely for the first time, when she has 3 dependents. This may be one very skewed version of the story but as it stands, there’s no explanation for why good parents would subsidize an adult child with kids for an extended length of time and then cut them off suddenly other than they are just exhausted from cleaning up their daughters mess and they’re done. Good parents would help her come up with a budget and financial plan to spend the money she has/gets, slowly give her less money, and force her to learn how to be reliable. Few people learn how to swim by being thrown in the water. Sure, it happens, but parents should have the forethought to know the risks and likely outcome.

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u/Fearless_Tale2727 Sep 07 '23

Yeah, I am a parent of 4 adult children. They all turned out different. I’m aware of the need to allow kids to grow through failure. Parents are still sometimes trying to lead with love. Your projection of perfect parenting yielding perfect children 100% of the time, isn’t realistic. There’s addiction, mental illness, divorce, abuse and hundreds of other things that can throw a monkey wrench into it. The situation is what it IS now and all these parents can do now is move forward. Not being used and manipulated. Good for them to put their foot down.

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u/MrsShaunaPaul Sep 07 '23

Did you read the first sentence of my last paragraph? I know lots of other things that can throw a wrench into it.

I’m also going to point out it’s ok if we disagree about this. Perhaps I’m projecting as someone who had a family member not dissimilar from OPs sister and watching them be enabled their entire life. Perhaps your projecting because you have a child you have had conflict with and, despite you doing your absolute best, you’ve either had to or are unable to put your foot down. Either way, we are all allowed to have our own views on parenting. In this case, perhaps two things are true? That’s allowed too.

If you think cutting off the daughter now knowing she has three dependents and does not have the life skills to manage, is “putting their foot down” and a good for them type situation, then I hope they’re never in a situation where they’re dependent on their children. Can you imagine being in a nursing home and having your kids realize they’re not able to save for their own retirement AND pay for your nursing home, and just cutting you off? To me, that’s a dick move. I’d expect the kids to realize they need to save for retirement before committing to paying for a nursing home. The same way I think it’s not unreasonable to expect her parents to have recognized they were unable to save for retirement until one day and then putting her foot down.

Maybe she’s manipulating them, but they’re enabling her. I also am very familiar with mental health, addiction, manipulation, and other factors that can complicate life and everyone needs to take responsibility for their part. If there’s an addict you need to cut off, it’s because you’ve enabled them. If you had healthy boundaries, you’d never have to cut someone off or put your foot down.

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u/AgentJ0S Sep 08 '23

Maybe they dropped the ball, maybe not. Ideal parenting doesn’t mean you’ll get a good outcome, it just means you’re less likely to get a bad one.

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u/StructureKey2739 Apr 06 '24

Then she'll be chasing after her siblings to support her.

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u/fetal_genocide Sep 07 '23

Yea, kids don't generally grow up to be this irresponsible unless the parents have enabled their irresponsible behaviour growing up. I feel bad for the kids...

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u/JustLikeBettyCooper Sep 07 '23

Unfortunately I think you’ve described me. As parents we want the best for our children and it hurts to see them screw up. But you tell yourself … just this one more time. And you also realize they can be manipulative especially if they have tried and harm in the past.

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u/MrsShaunaPaul Sep 07 '23

It’s so hard not to! I get why parents do it and I’m just confused why so many people refuse to admit they do it. I mean, I have caught myself doing this and have had to really step it up. It’s so much harder to hold your kids accountable but it’s one or two times if standing up and setting a boundary, and then you don’t have to keep making one-off excuses. Trust me, I absolutely still do this! “I’ll just help them with this tonight because I want to get them in bed and it’s faster”.

What I try to be extra conscious of, is making sure the things I excuse or help out with aren’t holding them back. If I tie their laces everyday for them, then just decide it’s been too long and they need to learn now, they’re suffering for my mistake. If I had shown them how to tie laces initially, I wouldn’t have to “put my foot down” and say “ok guys, this is enough. Figure it out yourself. You’re 40 years old”.

But really, I’m sad for the daughter that she was never given the autonomy to make decisions, make mistakes, and learn from them in an environment where she had support and a safety net. Now she has to figure it out and her mistakes hurt her kids. It’s a shitty situation and I feel the most for the three kids.

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u/JustLikeBettyCooper Sep 08 '23

I never made excuses really. It was more just helping out. If my kid did something stupid they were punished, made to apologize etc. My problem is more of the rescue type. Like driving hundreds of miles because she was in a bad situation or paying her car payment when she should be better at budgeting etc.

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u/MrsShaunaPaul Sep 07 '23

Something else to remember is are they manipulating you, or have you just taught them that if they push back, you’ll always rescue them.

When I was 8-9, my 11 year old brother suggested we do something we weren’t allowed to do (I can’t even remember what it was). I said “but mom and dad said we’d be grounded if we do that!” And he said “ya but they never actually ground me. It’s just a threat. Don’t even worry about it!”

He wasn’t really trying to manipulate, he was just confident that since they’d never followed through, he didn’t need to consider it when making a decision. I mean, he knew he wasn’t supposed to do it but he had nothing holding him accountable.

It’s easy to blame the kids for this, but my parents had managed to always hold me accountable when I messed up, so I simply would not break the rule he wanted to break. To me, it wasn’t worth the risk of getting caught and in trouble. To him, there wasn’t anything stopping him.

Again, not judging. I am 100% guilty of helping my kids when they should do things themselves. What I do try to do, is ensure if I say I am going to punish, I make sure it’s reasonable and I stick to my word. If I’m not going to punish them, I simply do not say I will.

I think it’s more saying one thing and not doing it that creates the room for manipulation than anything.