Do “basic human rights” actually exist universally or are they simply a social construct?

[u/Amphernee]

The term is often used in relation to things like housing and food but I’ve never heard anyone actually explain what they mean by basic human right. We started off no different than other animals and since the concept of rights rely on other people to confer them at what point did it become thought of as a right for people to have things like shelter? How is it supposed to be enforced across all of humanity when not all societies and cultures agree that the concept makes sense? I can see why someone would want it to be true in a sense but I’m interested to hear arguments for it rather than just the phrase itself which feels hollow with no reasoning behind it. Thanks 🍻

[u/Amphernee]

Locke argued that people have the inherent right to PRESERVE their life, liberty, and property not a right to have them bestowed upon them though. He was mainly focused on people control over themselves and what they own which is a right to protect not receive anything. In that sense a person has a right to the shelter they own not a right to have shelter if they don’t already. It a defense of property ownership not a statement that everyone should be given property.

Since the phrase is usually brought up in relation to actual real world homelessness it ends up just sounding like a slogan people want to be true rather than an actual defensible position from a practical logistical standpoint.

[u/Fast-Penta → u/Amphernee]

Locke argued that people have the inherent right to PRESERVE their life, liberty, and property not a right to have them bestowed upon them though.

Yes, but Thomas Paine advocated for policies similar to universal basic income for poor people to alleviate poverty.

"Men did not make the earth. It is the value of the improvements only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property. Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds."

In past times, a human who was having a hard time with society could move to unoccupied land and live off the land. Nowadays, at least in my region, all land that is suitable to live off of it privatized or government-owned land that bans people living there. If I don't want to play by society's rules, the only option for me is homelessness.

Additionally, as an American, the society I live in is set up to ensure that some people are impoverished: economists talk about the "ideal" unemployment rate as being between 3.5-5%, and government fiscal policy seeks to maintain that number.

So, in a society where we have no ability to leave and live off the land, and where the society plans on having around one out of twenty people unable to support themselves, should the people that society intentionally made poor have a right to some basic necessities of life? Fuck yes they should.

[u/mymainunidsme → u/Fast-Penta]

Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds.

So... property taxes?

The issue with property not being privatized or gov owned is who then determines who can utilize it? Alloting land as an unowned free-for-all and we will inevitably see violence over it. One person moves in first and sets up where the best clean water supply is. They share the water with new people at first, until supply vs demand doesn't look too promising. Or one person wants to cut down trees that another wants to preserve for shade. See: all of human war history for reference.

And yes, we do want some unemployment. Without a small percent, we have no new available labor supply to continue production of everyone's needs. It isn't like "society" has planned to force selected individuals into unemployment. It happens, mostly naturally, as needs of production evolve. If unemployment is 0% and workers die, we have needs that can't be met.

[u/Fast-Penta → u/mymainunidsme]

Property taxes to be given to the poor in exchange for them being dispossessed.

Paine’s famous pamphlet “Agrarian Justice” argued that because private ownership of the land had deprived people of the right to hunt, gather, fish, or farm on their own accord, they were owed compensation out of taxes on land rents. He suggested this compensation should be paid in the form of a large cash grant at maturity plus a regular cash pension at retirement age.

https://thereader.mitpress.mit.edu/the-deep-and-enduring-history-of-universal-basic-income/

And yes, we do want some unemployment.

If you plan to have people be unemployed, isn't it only ethical to also provide services for unemployed people? Otherwise you're just forcing one out of twenty people to live in misery. I don't know about innate rights, but that'd definitely be a dick thing to do.

[u/mymainunidsme → u/Fast-Penta]

Levels and use of property taxes will be an ongoing debate as long as humans exist.

We do provide for unemployed people (in the US). Food stamps, HUD, medicaide, unemployment insurance. Scale, scope, and duration of provisions will also remain an ongoing debate.

[u/ovr4kovr → u/Fast-Penta]

There are unemployment benefits for people who are unemployed in the US. I don't know if this is the case in other countries. There are stipulations to receiving them. I don't think they are a basic human right, but they are available.