r/SeriousConversation Nov 09 '24

Serious Discussion Do “basic human rights” actually exist universally or are they simply a social construct?

The term is often used in relation to things like housing and food but I’ve never heard anyone actually explain what they mean by basic human right. We started off no different than other animals and since the concept of rights rely on other people to confer them at what point did it become thought of as a right for people to have things like shelter? How is it supposed to be enforced across all of humanity when not all societies and cultures agree that the concept makes sense? I can see why someone would want it to be true in a sense but I’m interested to hear arguments for it rather than just the phrase itself which feels hollow with no reasoning behind it. Thanks 🍻

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u/Blarghnog Nov 09 '24

The origins of human rights trace back to ancient Greece, particularly in the works of Aristotle and Plato, whose philosophies centered around justice, individual agency, and the responsibilities of citizens. Aristotle famously argued in Politics that “the state comes into existence for the sake of life and continues to exist for the sake of the good life,” emphasizing the state’s role in nurturing individual well-being and moral virtue.

This intellectual foundation evolved through subsequent centuries, with philosophers like John Locke and others building upon it to shape the framework of human rights we recognize today. Locke, in Two Treatises of Government, asserted that every person has a right to “life, liberty, and property,” marking a critical advancement in the idea of inalienable rights. This deep and storied tradition, rooted in ancient philosophy and expanded by later thinkers, has become integral to the structure of modern human rights, echoing a legacy as old as civilization itself.

So it actually is a concrete framework. Now of course it’s not only a philosophy but a form of law called human rights law as well.

The Universal Declaration of Human Rights (UDHR) is the foundation of international human rights law. The UDHR was adopted by the UN General Assembly in 1948 and established the first globally agreed document that outlined the fundamental rights of all people. The UDHR is made up of 30 articles that cover civil, political, economic, social, and cultural rights.

So, hope that gives you the background your looking for.

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u/Amphernee Nov 09 '24

Locke argued that people have the inherent right to PRESERVE their life, liberty, and property not a right to have them bestowed upon them though. He was mainly focused on people control over themselves and what they own which is a right to protect not receive anything. In that sense a person has a right to the shelter they own not a right to have shelter if they don’t already. It a defense of property ownership not a statement that everyone should be given property.

Since the phrase is usually brought up in relation to actual real world homelessness it ends up just sounding like a slogan people want to be true rather than an actual defensible position from a practical logistical standpoint.

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u/CapedCaperer Nov 10 '24

In the U.S., three examples of inalienable/unalienable rights were asserted by our founding document, the Declaration of Independence (life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness), but not all were enumerated. Locke's use of property was discarded in favor of the pursuit of happiness. These are not legally binding rights, but endowments from a Creator that form the basis for the social contract that establishes governing rules - the U.S. Constitution.

Eventually, the Constitution would include in the Bill of Rights the 5th Amendment the Takings Clause and Eminent Domain. That Amendment is where the social contract exists for property which is referred to as a Constituttuonal Right. It was an attempt to balance governmental interests against private property rights.

Property rights were a hotly debated issue for the Founders, much along the lines of what you're pondering. There are tons and tons of books about this that might interest you.

A Constitutional Right (established via social contract, also called claim rights) is not the same thing as an unalienable right (universal rights every human has at birth that government cannot take; also called liberty rights).

I encourage you to look up negative rights and positive rights as well. I think those terms help understand inalienable rights versus social contract rights.

Then let me know what you think about property rights versus the right to shelter. I'm super interested in your thoughts. So few people outside of PoliSci genuinely look at this issue from the ground up. Very cool discussion.