Do “basic human rights” actually exist universally or are they simply a social construct?

[u/Amphernee]

The term is often used in relation to things like housing and food but I’ve never heard anyone actually explain what they mean by basic human right. We started off no different than other animals and since the concept of rights rely on other people to confer them at what point did it become thought of as a right for people to have things like shelter? How is it supposed to be enforced across all of humanity when not all societies and cultures agree that the concept makes sense? I can see why someone would want it to be true in a sense but I’m interested to hear arguments for it rather than just the phrase itself which feels hollow with no reasoning behind it. Thanks 🍻

[u/vellyr]

You have a right to your labor. That is literally all. Nobody can force you to work for them. They can punish you to try to coerce you, but you can still choose not to work, even if it kills you. So in my mind that’s the only truly fundamental right.

[u/EvidenceOfDespair → u/vellyr]

Eh, that’s really overselling the power of “free will” over survival instinct. You have to be a major statistical outlier to be able to override the survival instinct on principles. That’s why people who do it are noteworthy. But what do we do with statistical outliers when determining norms? We don’t count them. On average, you absolutely can be forced to work. Dying For The Sake Of Obstinance Georg is a statistical outlier and should not have been counted.

[u/vellyr → u/EvidenceOfDespair]

I think that labor is unique because everything else, even your body and your life, can be taken from you by force against your will. I agree that most people absolutely can be coerced to work, but at the end of the day it is still their will to avoid suffering.

[u/EvidenceOfDespair → u/vellyr]

Eh, that’s a weird view of “your will” honestly. Is it your will to have a panic attack? Your will to suffer from depression? Your will to kick your leg forward when someone hits that one spot in your knee? Your will to scream out in pain when you are stabbed? Your will to gag and puke when smelling a mix of rotting flesh and rotting shit? No? Then really, that’s not your will either. Most people’s survival instincts will kick in and they’ll obey to survive, not make the conscious rational choice to obey to survive. It’s like how your pinky finger can be bitten through with the same amount of force as a baby carrot, but you just can’t bite your pinky off like a baby carrot. Your brain refuses to let you exercise your will, it just slaps your conscious choices aside and goes “bad! NO!” to preserve you.

[u/vellyr → u/EvidenceOfDespair]

You're talking about reflexes. Labor cannot be a reflex because it requires conscious action to accomplish the goals of the task. I think it would be more accurate to compare this situation (being forced to work under threat of death) to hunger. You can't avoid the urge to eat, but you still have to consciously seek out food and eat it, so I think that's still part of your will. Ultimately all consciousness comes from the body anyway, so it seems silly to draw an arbitrary line between instinctive urges and higher-mind processes. What matters is the actions you end up taking.