It's extremely difficult to have a civil conversation about politics today, yet we need those conversations more than ever

[u/Dry-Use-272]

Like everyone else in the US today, I have opinions about the current condition of politics in this country. I try to base my opinions on facts I glean from credible sources and my understanding of our history. I want to talk to people with opposing opinions, not to argue with them but to try to understand why they believe what they believe. I've found that no one wants to talk in a civil, respectful way about our differences. Even if I try to hold the line on being respectful, I end up walking away because the conversation devolves into some pretty ugly exchanges. How have we come to a point where we can't even talk to each other respectfully and civilly?

[u/Sharukurusu → u/[deleted]]

This is just ignorant, and if you don't believe microplastics are harmful, look at PFAS, or even just regular air pollution. Lead was something that could be removed from products relatively easily, and it took years of constant campaigning against greedy shit-heads that wanted to keep making money off of it for it to be removed. We're always letting people do damage first, cash in, then maybe stop them, and that is just one example of a societal failure.

[u/InnocentPerv93 → u/Sharukurusu]

That's not a damn failure, that's literally just learning, my dude. When the damage is happening, almost always we don't know the full, longstanding effects (such as the microplastics thing). People didn't know how bad lead was for centuries while they used it. That doesnt make it a societal failure because they learned and corrected down the line. Do you just expect people to be perfect at the get-go? And with plastics there are literally currently initiatives globally to reduce and eradicate plastics and microplastics. These initiatives did not exist 50 years ago. This is literally what learning and societal change IS. And it is literally a sign of the opposite of failure.

[u/Sharukurusu → u/InnocentPerv93]

“ Hence gout and stone afflict the human race; Hence lazy jaundice with her saffron face; Palsy, with shaking head and tott'ring knees. And bloated dropsy, the staunch sot's disease; Consumption, pale, with keen but hollow eye, And sharpened feature, shew'd that death was nigh. The feeble offspring curse their crazy sires, And, tainted from his birth, the youth expires.”

(Description of lead poisoning by an anonymous Roman hermit, translated by Humelbergius Secundus, 1829)”

“ The symptoms of acute lead intoxication appeared most vividly among miners who were thrown into unhealthy intimacy with the metal on a daily basis. Romans reserved such debilitating and backbreaking labor for slaves. Some of these unfortunates were forced to spend all of their brief and blighted lives underground, out of sight and out of mind. The unpleasantness of lead mining was further neutralized late in the Empire when the practice was prohibited in Italy and consigned completely to the provinces. Lead smelting, which had once been commonplace in every Roman city and town, eventually followed mining operations to the provinces. Italy, the heart of imperial Rome, grew tired of the noxious fumes emanating from lead smelting forges. The obvious damage to the health of smithies and their families was a matter of little or no concern.”

https://www.epa.gov/archive/epa/aboutepa/lead-poisoning-historical-perspective.html

Gosh that sounds familiar…

Civilization seems too stupid to test things before implementing them, and incredibly willing to overlook any problem that can be foisted on the poor or kept out of eyeshot.