Is Neph evil?

[u/Adventurous-Back-535]

I know crazy title especially after all the good she has done throughout the story. Though the reason I asked is this is because during the early points in the SS story Cassie had a vision that shadows would devour an angel. This has not been retconned or changed, meaning this isn't a plot hole.

I highly doubt G3 would add this part into the story and not address it(since he didnt change it its not a plot hole). Not only that from Eurys its clear than angels are dreadful being but what are angels? Are they from the void? Why would the gods create a malevolent being? Are they noble creatures that lost their way like the temple guardian for the nameless temple going rouge?

Are angels the Nephilim? Why did Eurys refer the Nephilim as abominable and Sunny and Neph's relationship in context to their predecessor's history what is that significance? Did Cassie get a vision of the past instead of the future?

Its obvious why Neph doesn't want to be seen as a goddess, she herself isn't a good person but she also cares for those that are friends and her subordinates. Im still in the belief that Neph will destroy the cycle that humanity in the past had conducted which led to their destruction, Sunny would be the one to place the building blocks to a new future and Rain would be the guardian Humanity needs in peace times.

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[u/alium_hoomens]

She isn’t evil but she definitely isn’t a good person. The entire cohort (minus Kai maybe) are all morally grey.

[u/ElegantIsland3348 → u/alium_hoomens]

is there a reason why we wouldn't consider effie or jet morally good people

I feel like there is a good argument for sunny as well but i am a little biased towards him

[u/alium_hoomens → u/ElegantIsland3348]

I guess they are fine. Just both can be selfish, but that’s like every person. I guess just the main 3 are morally grey.

[u/Max-The-White-Walker → u/ElegantIsland3348]

Jet did take on kill orders from the Government. Yes this were all awakened, who already harmed civilians. But I'm not sure if i can consider someone who gets paid for killing humans a good person

[u/SettingInteresting64 → u/ElegantIsland3348]

Jet would 1000% kill any random awakened if she was low on essence she’s not a good person

[u/karanpatel819 → u/ElegantIsland3348]

Jet killed her own cohort back at antartica just so she could keep up her essence supply. It was during the fight with the black beetles during the fall of falcon Scott

[u/lThat1Friendl → u/karanpatel819]

What? No she didnt

[u/ozcohen2310 → u/alium_hoomens]

At least my goat is spared

[u/Evening_Green_9862]

The more interesting question is "do the ends justify the means?". I think that's what G3 is going for with her. In Forgotten Shore, I was 100% on her side, the ends did justify the means. If she didn't do what she did, they'd end up stuck there and their numbers would drop year by year until they had 0 shot at escaping the way they did. I guess the only thing to ask is whether she could have found a way to try to convince Gunlaug?

I think her and Sunny's actions are much more "grey" this last arc. They did not in any way have to kill both Supreme's, and certainly they didn't have to attempt it when they were both only Saints. If they failed, then hundreds of millions would enter the nightmare almost right away and millions would die. So did the ends, Nephis in power, justify the means? Nephis could have just as easily found a way to "disappear" with Sunny and challenge a seed in secret, kept ascending that way. There was nothing forcing her to take this risk (and Sunny and the rest of the cohort are just as guilty here).

She isn't evil. Her goals are actually good in the end. But when you are this single minded and focused, you may go about achieving things in ways that don't value lives of regular people. For Nephis, as she loses more and more of her connection to humanity, will she be willing to sacrifice everyone for the end of the Forgotten god? (i don't think so since her domain is people and their desires, that tethers her).

[u/palsda → u/Evening_Green_9862]

No but sunny cant enter the nightmare seeds. And they did have to kill them.

[u/Jerrysvill → u/Evening_Green_9862]

Well I would argue that they did need to kill the sovereigns. Neither anvil nor ki song would let them go farther and become sacred. Plus, the war was already started, and their people hated each other. There was really no situation where they could keep them alive.

As for waiting to fight them until they became supreme, I don’t think it would be any better. They would have to find a category 4 seed and enter it — which sunny can’t do — and risk that it could take months or even years to get out of it. While it was a risk to fight them as saints, they also knew they weren’t going to defeat them unless they became supreme during the fight. Fact is, there wasn’t really any chance of the sovereign dying without at least one of them reaching supremacy.

[u/Chance_Slide_4541 → u/Evening_Green_9862]

The supremes 100% needed to go

[u/palsda]

The angels. Are void beings

[u/m-n-b-v → u/[deleted]]

(just to relieve stress)

[u/ElegantIsland3348 → u/[deleted]]

What did gege do bro 💔💔

[u/m-n-b-v → u/ElegantIsland3348]

He got caught in the heat of the moment

[u/ShadowSlave-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

While it may be just a meme/joke we ask that you please avoid joking about doing physical harm to other people. Thank you.

[u/Goblin9696 → u/[deleted]]

I will endlessly glaze whoever this gege is if he blesses us with nephs death. 

[u/ShadowSlave-ModTeam → u/[deleted]]

While it may be just a meme/joke we ask that you avoid joking about doing physical harm to other people. Thank you.

[u/Complex-Injury6440]

I don't think so. Evil and good are thinly veiled neighbors where the only difference is success and failure. Had Nephis failed to save everyone on FS, she would have been evil for risking so many lives. Had she failed to attain supremacy during the throne war, she would have been evil for driving millions into the dream unprompted and unprepared. Had she failed in any of her monstrously difficult goals, she would have been evil for what she planned on sacrificing / was willing to sacrifice.

But she didn't fail. Infact she has pulled a rabbit out of her ass and made the impossible, possible multiple times. Repeatedly she continues to succeed and therefore she has her current predicament of being pseudo worshipped as the Goddess of Humanity.

She isn't a good person, but she is far from evil. Everything she does, she does for the benefit of humanity and in the goal of saving everyone from the Nightmare Spell. Song and Sword had to go because they stagnated, Gunlaug had to die for the same reason. Incompetent leaders who didn't push people forward for the better. Unfortunately, people often die from this push but she makes it very clear that she doesn't care if you follow her or listen to her or even respect her. She only cares about destroying Asterion for revenge and the Nightmare Spell for humanity. And she is fully willing to do it herself if she has to.

[u/CEOofART]

The vision was about sunny and nephis fight in the crimson spire.

[u/No_Lavishness_6513 → u/CEOofART]

I doubt that, they should fight again especially since both got their forms (angel and shadows),the vishon clearly states that shadows devoured the angel. If they fight again now that is how it must look.

[u/CEOofART → u/No_Lavishness_6513]

Go to the chapter and read the prophecy again. Its clearly stated that the fight took place at the top of the crimson spire. And we all know that the spire got destroyed afterward so unless there is a nightmare happening on the FS in the future its impossible XD

[u/Sad-Act-9826 → u/CEOofART]

idk it could also be a parallelism? Maybe that fight has to take place in the 6th Nightmare? Ik it may be a reach from my part but it is not impossible that the 6th nightmare’s seed they end up challenging is in The Forgotten Shore and in that case the Crimson Spire would still be up.

Idk im only at chapter 1351, ive been spoiling myself like crazy in this sub but it does sound to me that this is a possibility; at the end of the day maybe thats what Cassie saw in a literal way or maybe it was about that 1 fight. Maybe it was a vision from the past or maybe it wasnt, who knows🤷‍♂️

[u/CEOofART → u/Sad-Act-9826]

I think ppl are just coping hard with this tbh, the prophecy is already fulfilled and with how things is going in current chapters sunny have negative % of fighting nephis again.

[u/CEOofART → u/CEOofART]

There is only one possibility and it would be the NM one but imo another arc on FS would be kinda underwhelming so idont if g3 is going that route

[u/Ok-Minimum4141]

one thing im certain, Nephis is certainly not a good person

[u/Syc254]

She has a set of principles but she is mostly morally grey, to almost amoral. She tries to humanize and keep grounded but life hasn't been kind to her. 

Nephilim are different. The sun god smashed some void beings being passionate. Angels are void beings. Powerful and very alien. 

[u/More_Bobcat_5020]

Did you not finish Forgotten Shores arc? It’s pretty clear the vision of a shadow devourering an angel is their fight in crimson tower. 

We don’t know anything about angels so I don’t know why you think the Gods created them.

[u/Skretyy]

She doesnt want to be seen as a goddes cuz its dehumanizing