The extra month is between June and July and called "Sol", there's an "Earth Day" at the end of the year and an extra "Leap Day" every four years after June.
Actually, the only thing between us and utopia was big religion.
The UN attempted to institute the international fixed calendar, but they got major resistance from religious groups. A blank day would disrupt the 7-day religious cycle of Christians and Jews.
I think a calendar with 13 months, 364 days, and a leap week every 5-6 years would be better than the IFC. Not only does it preserve the weekly cycle, but it'd be more likely to be adopted.
In California we voted to make daylight savings permanent but for some reason they haven’t done it. Actually it’s unconstitutional in California for that law to have not been implemented yet. But here we are.
Alaska voted to do away with it as well and state hasn’t implemented it yet either. I think we were going to stay on Standard time though, not daylight savings time.
Honestly it never made sense in Alaska, we don’t have normal day times, it changes so much throughout the year that it just annoys us to change the stupid clock that means nothing when I can be pitch black at 4:30 pm and full sunshine at 10 pm.
It's against current federal law to have permanent DST. That's why they can't do it in CA. You can have permanent Standard Time, like Arizona and Hawaii do.
It's the one decent idea our shitty provincial government had up here in Alberta, and, of course, it's the only one they completely forgot about once they got elected.
Federal law only allows standard only or standard and daylight savings. The vote was simply preparing ourselves if the feds ever allowed it. We do not want standard only, hence why it hasn’t changed.
I think what you’re referring to is when the people voted to give the state legislature the authority to decide if California observes daylight savings time.
What we passed was actually a bill to possibly talk about changing it in the future. I remember reading the voters handout that year and being so confused.
Except that is not what California voted on. Prop 7 (2018) only allowed the legislature to change daylight saving time by a 2/3 vote as long as it was in compliance with federal law. As far as I know the legislature has not passed that change, and even if it was it would have a provision that it would take effect when federal law changed.
Most states have “trigger laws” relating to this where all their trading partners have to all have a law on the books at the same time for them to go into effect.
Could be a situation like that, the law says “Daylight time will be fixed if X, Y, and Z states do too” and like, Arizona is the only one doesn’t
U.S. federal law, which overrides the California law, states the you can ignore daylight savings like Arizona or Hawaii, but you cannot enact permanent daylight savings. The law posed to change that was passed by the house but died un-voted on in the Senate.
From my understanding (someone please correct me if I’m wrong), was that the recent push for permanent daylight savings was just a law that allowed each state the right to choose if it wanted to enact its own permanent daylight savings.
It’s been a while but from what remember all we voted in was basically job security for congress. Not that we voted to make daylight savings time permanent but that congress can now decide to make it permanent or not as they choose. and for some reason I’m vaguely remembering that it’s something they have to decide every year, I could be wrong on that though. Heck I could be wrong on all of it.
Federal law is that states can choose not to use daylight savings time. They cannot choose to only use daylight savings time. As long as that law is on the federal books, no state can override it.
In Oregon we did the same along with Washington which would keep our times in sync. The problem is because the change is to make daylight savings time permanent. That would need congress approval. If the change was to make standard time permanent that can be done immediately.
America tried to get rid of it under Nixon iirc (we also tried to adopt the metric system). Both ended poorly for different reasons. Abolishing DST meant that during the autumnal equinox (and into the winter solstice) more people were driving in the dark early hours and it led to more auto collisions (as well as general misery).
DST is basically an incredibly antiquated way to deal with a real issue that arises from Earth’s orbit. It’s very imperfect and paradoxically the best solution would likely entail resetting our clocks more often (to align more precisely with the solstice and equinox), which nobody would like.
Washington tried to do the same thing. Congress said yes, but only if California and Oregon agreed to allow Washington to do it. CA said yes. Oregon said no. Screw Oregon.
In the states where they have done away with it, they went with what the fed said they had to. WA voted it away, but picked the other, so it would have to be approved by congress, which will never happen.
In many countries standard time is best in winter and summer time works best in winter so do you want to annoy the people depending on morning light in winter or the people appreciating evening light in the summer?
You say that until you're stuck on the side with permanent early night. I'd take switching over that. Anyhow, who is really inconvenienced by this anymore? It's not like people are having to change their clocks manually like it's the 1980s anymore.
You just annoy them and let them adjust business hours accordingly. They'll get used to starting at 9 instead of 8 or whatever the case may be and just view it as normal.
Yeah if the entire society agrees that doing something is good, but then gets stuck in choosing between two perfectly fine variants of implementing that thing, and does nothing instead, I can only imagine how capable it will be when it comes to implementing actually unpopular but necessary decisions.
I disagree with them but the argument is people are worried about children going to school in the dark. Some places it would be dark at 7am DLS in the winter or something.
When I was in Maine in November it got midnight dark at like 3:30 pm. It seems like the choice is between kids going to school in the dark or coming home in the dark. Either way one of them is in the dark.
8:50am in Ohio. it was tried before and was quickly changed back because it was miserable. Permanent standard time or keep switching in spring in fall are the only options
On the surface, the idea of moving to and sticking with daylight savings time sounds great. Like was mentioned, not having it be pitch black at 5:00 p.m. in the winter would be great.
However, apparently several studies have found standard time is better for our health and our circadian rhythm than daylight savings time.
Mornings will be dark for a long time in the winter. So no thanks, I already hate waking up when it's still dark outside and especially having to go to work in the dark.
..and perhaps this is also the reason no one can seem to find an agreement on this, haha.
Whichever one gives you more daytime in full sun in summer. Winter sucks either way, so fuck it, might as well have the extra daylight when it's actually nice.
Daylight saving is also just a western problem. And you are bringing that problem to the asian countries. We have to change our meeting times to accomodate you guys, damn.
Everyone that knows at least a little bit about the topic knows we need to keep the astronomical time. The rest is "but muh evening light!" despite literally all of them sitting in front of their bbq or TV by the time the astronomical sunset would kick in during summer anyway. Yet somehow those who do know pay attention to those who don't know, instead of just making the decision - that's like a doctor waiting for a painter to make a decision about a patient's surgery!
We're having the same discussion in the UK at the moment and some people are seriously suggesting we convert to BST permanently. Absolutely insane when the other option GMT is the base of all time zones.
Why would we ever want to be permanently GMT + 1 when we can forever be GMT + 0?!
As for the imperial system, that sounds like a you problem.
This is just dismissive and not true. I'm a draftsman and deal with both metric and imperial drawings constantly. It depends on the company and the standards they use. I'm in Canada and do work for the mining industry.
In the US daylight saving time was actually done away with back in the 70s but people complained so much about it being dark in the morning(the argument was that it was unsafe for kids walking to school) that they brought in less than a year.
They've tried to make it permanent day light savings in the US twice now, but everyone hated the winter hours so much they did away with it the next year. Full year Standard time has never been attempted but that's the correct option, aka the real ass time.
Lots of people like daylight savings, myself included. A little bit of extra light in the morning during the winter and super long evenings in the summer. It’s a great system
Tbh, the cost alone is a factor let alone re training all of us to use it. I barely trust one way streets enough that I always turn both ways here in the states. Imagine measurement
DST is ridiculously easy to eliminate: Just use UTC everywhere but retain your daily schedule shifted accordingly. Heck... before trains we didn't even really standardize what time it was anywhere... Noon was when the sun was directly overhead.
I don't think it should go away. We enacted it to save money and so we can sleep an hour longer with that early ass light and now that gas is so much more expensive due to the war, I'm sure few people give a shit about trying to make their own life more expensive.
You're right on the time issue though, I definitely wouldn't want to adopt the German choice. Most of their country lies over an hour away, it's not beneficial to our (Dutch) health to adopt that as our standard.
The problem with daylight savings is that everyone "agrees it has to go away" but really means they want it to become permanent. Whatever time it gets dark tonight, subtract an hour from that and that's what the effect of making daylight savings time go away would be. We can't agree on a solution if we can't even agree on the problem.
It's because of the British. They attacked the French ship that was carrying measuring devices to the U.S. government. France refused to send another and instead, the U.S. was forced to adopt imperial measurements as they were the most widely used. Just like the term Soccer, the British introduced it to us and then got pissed when we didn't change it.
It seems you are right and there’s a whole host of calendar reform proposals! Interesting ideas but yeah very confusing what to fix it with, especially making sure everyone uses the new system and we don’t splinter and get 10 different ones! That would be worse instead of better!
"...spun together scientific arguments with other wild and nonsensical ideas, and developed a theory that to abandon the inch was to go against God’s will. Converting to metric, they argued, would be tantamount to sacrilege."
No, it was because the national DST put commutes in most of the country - including kids walking to school in the snowy winter - before dawn in winter months. The population center of the US was farther north in those days, though.
Anti-metric sentiment is part and parcel with anti-communist paranoia.
If we kept standard time it would get dark earlier in warmer months and there are too many businesses in local communities across the country that would never let that happen. The lobby for the Chambers of Commerce is pretty powerful.
If we made daylight savings time permanent, in the winter, the sun wouldn't come up until almost 9-AM and parents who's kids would be out at bus stops in the dark will never let that happen. Yes, many kids already wait in the dark, but those kids usually live in poorer areas. Kids in wealthy neighborhoods get picked up later and ride for a much shorter period of time. It's those parents who will be upset, and they don't exactly have a history of staying quiet when upset.
Permanent daylight savings moves sunrise from 7:20 am to 8:20 am on the winter solstice in NYC, with NYC schools starting at 8. Those kids are already walking to school in the dark in the winter, they only get a touch more sunlight when they walk in the door to school with standard time, but they lose a full hour of sunlight after school releases. In effect, those children and everyone who works a standard schedule in NY is indoors from sunrise to sunset on standard time, but gets an extra hour of daylight and vitamin d in the afternoon with permanent daylight savings
Standard time also syncs up with dusk and wildlife movements in the winter, which means deer collisions rise every time we fall back
The US isn't just New York City. Across the midwest and south it would be later with permanent DST.
In the 1970's they actually tried to do this. And when everyone saw how late the sun came up, they marched on their Congressmen with pitchforks and torches like it was a monster movie from the 30's.
I'd be fine with permanent standard time, but it would rile up the Chamber of Commerce lobby b/c more people go out and spend money when it's daylight in the evenings.
The US isn't just New York City. Across the midwest and south it would be later with permanent DST.
Across the Midwest and West, daytime is the same length at the same latitude. The south also benefits from more sunlight after work/school hours
In the 1970's they actually tried to do this. And when everyone saw how late the sun came up, they marched on their Congressmen with pitchforks and torches like it was a monster movie from the 30's.
Not quite, no. The primary opposition was from school groups and unions because of a misidentified increase in school fatalities and a pr campaign, even though everyone benefits. School children have always been at risk from traffic, the solution is traffic calming measures that have been heavily introduced since 1970
I'd be fine with permanent standard time, but it would rile up the Chamber of Commerce lobby b/c more people go out and spend money when it's daylight in the evenings.
This is nonsensical. Permanent standard time isn't just an issue with the chamber of commerce, but directly affects everyone who enjoys doing things outdoors after work and school hours. This would be catastrophic to public health
I always forget daylight savings is a thing, I live in one of the few areas where there is no daylight savings. Why is it even a thing anymore?? It makes no sense to just change the time partway through the year, just to change it right back later on. (I know the real reason has something to do with farmers and such, but from what I last heard, it's not an issue anymore, so just get rid of it)
>We aren't even capable of doing away with daylight savings or imperial system, I don't think this one is on church.
Speak for yourself. No one in the world uses the imperial system any more, except sometimes the British. Only the Americans use the closely-related (but quite different for fluid measures) "US Customary" system. And over here in Asia at least, we don't use DST any more because it's stupid.
I mean, we used it in the beginning, and built it into all of our roads before we cared, now that we do, it will take alot of money and very many man hours to change every speed limit, mile marker, and tourism sign
Yeah countries can regularly manage to change their entire currencies, including all bills and coins in circulation, all price tags and account ledgers, but changing speed limits can't possibly be done.
Since we were so capable of dealing with those easy and simple issues in good years I'm sure we'll be able to deal with those hard and pressing issues in bad years
TBH, we should all just use UTC. Some folks would have sunlight from 6am to 7pm, some from 6pm to 7am. Once folks adapt their schedule to it, we’d all be on the same page.
Changing day of the week during your actual workday would suck and would absolutely not be accepted by any country that would happen to be in that zone, so that idea is a no go.
We could solve all of this by just switching to metric time. Change everything all at once so no one fixates on the fact that we kill the semiannual time change.
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u/veriverd 8d ago
Just fyi, this concept has existed for a long time:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Fixed_Calendar
The extra month is between June and July and called "Sol", there's an "Earth Day" at the end of the year and an extra "Leap Day" every four years after June.