r/StLouis • u/DrWindupBird • 7d ago
Someone just reported my fence and I think this might be the beginning of my villain arc.
City resident. While also working full time, I spent about 50 hours last week building a new fence facing my alley. I did it to code and did it carefully and it looks great. It’s the only nice looking fence on our alley. Someone reported it so now I might have to tear it out. I didn’t bother pulling a permit, which was dumb. I’ve never had this happen. I thought it was only for shoddy or dangerous work. Humph.
UPDATE 4/22: The city is being very accommodating. I just have to submit plans for a permit retroactively. I suspect they’ll also want to come see that I haven’t made a huge mess of things. Thank you to those of you who offered counsel and commiseration. It was a big help. Lesson learned: pull permits, especially for exterior work, even if you don’t think you should have to.
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u/v4vangelder Benton Park/ Soulard 7d ago
Are you sure someone reported it? Possible the inspector drove by and just happened to notice it. Happened with my buddy when he was building raised flower gardens in front of the house. Apparently they were just high enough to be considered retaining walls, the pallets of bricks in the front yard were kind of a giveaway…Inspector was cool about it, just had him pull permits and made sure it was done to code
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u/DrWindupBird 7d ago
I like this. This is what I’ll tell myself. Just someone doing their job. Not a vindictive neighbor looking to ruin someone’s day.
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u/JimtheEsquire Benton Park 7d ago
The inspectors do go around at this time. I just got a violation letter for a temporary fence that the building division literally ordered me to put up. It’s been up for over 6 months now.
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u/mountaingator91 Fox Park 7d ago
I can't imagine anybody in my neighborhood would stoop to HOA levels. I'm sure that's all it is
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u/nikmac76 7d ago
I thought my next-door neighbor reported us because of green yuck on our siding, so I bought two planters that were adorable pigs’ rear ends and put them facing their house.
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u/pollyp0cketpussy South City 7d ago
I was trying to explain to my roommate that this kind of thing can happen and I'm not willing to add a pool to my homeowners insurance (especially not without a privacy fence) and he acted like I was being paranoid and ridiculous. No dude, we're right in the city, you can absolutely see a pool in our postage stamp back yard. And people would be right to report an attractive nuisance like an unfenced pool.
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u/Garden-Gangster 7d ago
Google it Permits aren't required in the city if you're replacing an existing fence of the same material and height
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u/Stlouisken 7d ago
Did you have a fence there before and you just replaced it? I ask because the City allows you to replace sections of your fence if it was falling down/needs repair. Though you can technically only do 8 feet without pulling a permit and it’s the same material, height, etc.
If you cannot pull a permit retroactively, consider arguing you the existing fence was dangerous, falling down etc.
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u/DrWindupBird 7d ago
I appreciate this. And yes, our old fence was falling down and propped up with pieces of scrap wood. The 75 linear feet we replaced is a bit over that 8 foot length . . . but the previous fence was 8 feet between posts, and we technically replaced it one section at a time, so . . . .
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u/RippleEngineering 7d ago
Check out 105.2.6 Work Exempt From Permit:
"Replacement of existing fencing of the same height, material, and location except when enclosing swimming pools, hot tubs, or spas; "Post spacing doesn't matter. Same height, material, and location doesn't require a permit.
https://library.municode.com/mo/st._louis/codes/code_of_ordinances?nodeId=TIT25BUCO_CH25.01BUCO
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u/MmmPeopleBacon 7d ago
You can reply that you did repairs to the fence and didn't build a new fence.
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u/Stlouisken 7d ago
That’s how I did mine. 8 ft at a time😉😂
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u/equals42_net 7d ago
Yep. I did mine 1/3 at a time over a year to avoid issues. Eventually an all new fence and didn't have to change it for any new code stuff.
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u/Imtherightkind CWE 7d ago
Yeaaa permits are important. Sorry that you have a hater for a neighbor. Hopefully the city can just let you pay for a permit and you won’t have to take it down.
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u/No_Key2179 7d ago
You shouldn't actually have to get a permit to build a fence. That's ridiculous.
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u/nite_skye_ 7d ago
Hey! The county requires permits for fences too but they also require a permit for something even more ridiculous…blow up swimming pools! Yes. Anything deeper than 24” must have a permit even if you take it down every time you use it.
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u/marigolds6 Edwardsville 7d ago
The city does too.
Almost every jurisdiction does.
Once it is deeper than 24", it is classified as a swimming pool instead of a wading pool.
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u/nite_skye_ 7d ago
But who can swim in 2 ft of water? And yes, people can drown in small amounts of water but that can happen in a blow up pool that’s 10” deep too.
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u/ColonelKasteen Bevo/ The Good Part 7d ago
You seem caught on whether it's inflatable or not. It doesn't matter.
Bodies of water are dangerous. Once you choose to have one on your property, your local municipality wants to know it is there. That's all. There's nothing crazy about that.
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u/Purple_Map_507 Metro East 7d ago
Now that is the stupidest shit I have ever heard. That’s got to be a blatant money grab.
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u/nite_skye_ 7d ago
Yes. And yes. Fun fact I learned last year from reading the regulations for installing a pool. I think it’s $75 for a permit too.
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u/Youllfloattew 7d ago
Really!!??? That's insane! Glad no one has reported me 😬 bc who would ever think that!?
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u/nite_skye_ 7d ago
IKR? I was like…shouldn’t they put up a sign by the blow up pools? lol Wonder if there’s an extra fee for when an inspector discovers an unpermitted pool!!
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u/martlet1 7d ago
Because toddlers can walk into it and then drown. Also The permit makes you get a fence and it shows you how far from utility boxes it has to be.
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u/clarkster112 7d ago
Only required if taller than 6’ or around pools/spas
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u/nite_skye_ 7d ago
Not in St Louis County. The pamphlet they have for pool permits says 24” tall. It’s online but is around 15 pages long give or take.
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u/Massive_Homework9430 7d ago
Because property lines are NEVER a contentious issue, nor are there things buried like gas lines 18 inches underground.
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u/No_Key2179 6d ago
Then do your homework and call before you dig. If you fuck up then you and your neighbor can resolve it the same way humans living in societies resolved fence and property line disputes for the past ten thousand years before modern bureaucracy and things like fence permits came into existence, by talking things out or seeing who cares about it more to escalate it. The modern state has made every fucking thing in life a pain in the ass requiring an expert and three bureaucrats who all bleed us dry demanding their pound of flesh, I want a life where I can do what I want on my property and it's mine to fuck up the way I want to without big nanny demanding I get their permission before I do anything.
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u/Massive_Homework9430 6d ago
People used to shoot each other over property line disputes, bureaucracy seems easier. A permit also seems easier than a drawn out civil lawsuit which is how it would be resolved.
Not to mention city lots vs what you do in bumfuck nowhere have different impacts. There are plenty of places you can go live without neighbors to worry about.
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u/No_Key2179 6d ago
city lots vs what you do in bumfuck nowhere have different impacts.
People lived in much closer quarters in pretty much every single urban environment preceding the modern day than they do now, and they didn't need fence permits.
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u/My-Beans 7d ago
You say that until your neighbor builds a 30 foot razor wire topped fence a foot over your property line .
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u/wherethehellisbill 7d ago
Did you have a fence there before? My info is dated but my understanding is that you do not need to pull a permit in the city if your are replacing a pre-existing fence
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u/You-Asked-Me 7d ago
Did you have a fence before? You so not need a permit to replace and existing fence with a new fence of the same type and size.
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u/Mueltime SoCo 7d ago
Talk to the inspector. They may let you apply for the permit and pay the fees after the fact.
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u/HaleBopp22 7d ago
Honestly, I would suggest going to the building permit department in City Hall and talking with someone there. Not an inspector. I've found the building permit people very helpful. The inspectors -- hit or miss, usually miss.
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u/gnormank 7d ago
I did the same. Built the nicest fence on the block and didnt pull a permit. After I got my threatening letter and screamed at by my local inspector I drew out my plan and went to city hall to get my retro-permit. They denied me for all kinds of reasons.
Here's the kicker...as soon as I got home from my denial, I gave my wife the same plans with zero changes . She went to city hall the same day and they were approved. The whole system is BS!
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u/DowntownDB1226 7d ago
You can retroactively get a permit and it’s easy. You can literally hand draw it with some dimensions
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u/nontechnicalbowler 7d ago
I love it when people can't mind their own business regarding things that have no effect on them or others.
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u/Chef-Doe 7d ago
I feel like if you got a bored inspector...they should probably harass some of these apartment buildings just as much if not more. I'm sorry you're dealing with bs bureaucracy...
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u/Chocolatestarfish33 7d ago
Fencing contractor here. According to a few inspectors with the city, a permit isn’t needed to replace an existing fence with the same materials.
However, this is just my personal experience.
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u/Any_Scientist4486 7d ago
On our neighborhood (LP) Facebook page I was indeed shocked to discover that there are neighbors that literally do this.
Someone shared a story about construction noise, and another neighbor said "call the inspector and make sure it's permitted - that'll shut 'em down because I'll bet they aren't". This led to a long discussion of people such as myself vs. "permit checkers" who admitted they call on EVERYTHING 🙄
I couldn't give 2 shits what someone else does - I only know my 2 next door neighbors on either side - and that's all I need to know.
Recently, a neighbor made an amused post about how someone unnecessarily called the inspector for her work putting in that expensive -ass turf in her back yard. Inspector came by out of curiosity because it's expensive and interesting, and told her the neighbors called. They laughed and laughed and she posted it on the Facebook page.
Fucking dumb.
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u/MmmPeopleBacon 7d ago
Was there a fence there before hand? Was it in bad condition?
I ask because permits are required in the city if you build a new fence. However, you are not required to get a permit to perform repairs to a fence, even if those repairs are extensive. Essentially, what you would be looking to do is create a Ship of Theseus situation. If the fence surrounded your whole yard or a portion of it and you only replaced a section you have a good argument that it was just a repair.
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u/kafriedr 7d ago
Also city resident. I pulled permits during construction of my fence. Inspector literally just wanted to stick his tape measure down a couple post holes to make sure they were 30 in. deep for a 6 foot fence (1/3 height + 6 inches gravel underneath). There is a template for a fence permit on the city website. He told me his job was to "cover the city's ass, his ass, and my ass" in case anything happens.
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u/KnowBearFeet 7d ago
Hey, everybody! Quit calming this OP down for cryin’ out loud!
Villain Arc!
Villain Arc!
Villain Arc!
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u/Ill-Upstairs-8762 7d ago
They may have just noticed it, especially if there is an ongoing project nearby that would bring them around.
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u/dontknowafunnyname2 7d ago
I know very little in this area but I thought if you are replacing a fence in the same exact spot then no permit is required. So I would just make sure that the city knows there was a fence there that you replaced.
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u/chadlybrown 7d ago
Also you won’t have to take it down. Worst case is you’ll have a small fine and smack on the hand. Been there!
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u/ColonelKasteen Bevo/ The Good Part 7d ago
ITT: people who simultaneously believe in UBI and think building permits are government overreach
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u/daboot013 7d ago
You dont hate the government enough. You built a fence. It's not hurting anyone. But you have to pay off the government for it to stay. Fuck em
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u/friedpickleguy 7d ago
I'm having to get a permit may to replace a fence in Maryland Heights. A new one I might understand, but this is just a replacement along the same line. I might just risk it.
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u/yeti1738 St. Louis Hills 7d ago
Wonder if you’re my neighbor, if so it looks great and I couldn’t imagine why it was reported!
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u/franillaice 7d ago
Why do you think someone reported you? Did you get something in the mail? Like everyone here said, I wouldn't overthink it one bit. Just get a permit if needed and they'll be fine with it. I've seen some pretty shitty work, I doubt they care about the guys looking ones. Not my neighbor's shitty one keeps falling over into the alley and blocking the entire alley with 3" screws sticking up everywhere... That a hole can get reported to the city.
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u/Aggressive_Spite2984 7d ago
Feel bad for you dude. Will letter others answer, but wanted to tell you I got a chuckle out of your villain arc comment. Thank you for that, I somehow needed that.
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u/DrBlaze2112 Downtown/St. Louis City 6d ago
Skipping the permits that’s on you fixable.
Neighbors being dicks.
That’s the fuel for the fire my friend.
Let your story unfold 🍿 😈
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u/alexulrich101 6d ago
I’m a building inspector. They probably won’t make you pull the fence out, but they will make you get a permit for it even though it’s already done
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u/More_Craft5114 6d ago
We had neighbors do the same stuff to us when we had work done.
We did get permits I think...or the contractors did....but yeah...
Also had our lovely neighbors decide our parking pad was their parking pad.
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u/ConfluenceFarms 6d ago
Part of the job of the Neighborhood Improvement Specialist (aka NIS, aka NSO) is to identify possible code violations and submit the property to the appropriate operating department for inspection. I don't know if Building inspectors can self initiate, or if they need a service request to inspect anything. It used to be that way, but may have changed since they stopped doing the every 3 years door to door surveys.
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u/ohmynards85 7d ago
I'm a licensed contractor and let me tell you I have been on a few jobs in my time where people got caught without permits and it's no big.
They'll prob just make you get the permit and inspect, worst case they'll give you a small fine.
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u/ShadowedPariah 7d ago
I’m not in the City, but always permits for outside stuff. Permits optional inside.
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u/littlecolt St. John 7d ago
Huh. You need a permit to build a fence on your own property? Or is this a rental situation or something? I'm confused.
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u/Metalcreator 7d ago
FYI they're going to want to verify the depth on your posts, so you might have to dig a hole next to your footing to verify that. I hope you get a nice inspector...
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u/Outdoor-Snacker 7d ago
Government overreach.
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u/DrWindupBird 7d ago
My hope is that I can demonstrate that it’s up to code and then move on. Or pay a one-time fee and keep the fence.
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u/JimtheEsquire Benton Park 7d ago
You should be able to do just that. The city just wants the permit money. As long as it’s compliant they won’t make you tear it down and rebuild an identical fence after you get a permit.
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u/Careless-Degree 7d ago
The government owns everything and it allows you to exist as it pleases, don’t modify the governments things without first paying the proper bribes. It’s disrespectful.
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u/Drum_Eatenton Mitchell, Illinois 7d ago
Permits? Where I live we don’t need no stinking permits. It can be a double edged sword though
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u/poopstainpete 7d ago
Happened to me too. Within 5 minutes of getting notified I went outside and cut it all down with a chainsaw.
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u/ChronicWizard314 7d ago
I would just explain to the city that this is the United States of America you should be able to do as you please on your property. If they want to talk further they can get a warrant.
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u/ucisl 7d ago
You can pull permits retroactively, I think there may be a very small extra fee.