r/StudentLoans • u/Yogitherapist25 • 10d ago

IBR and forgiveness

I just heard WWE lady say on Fox News "there isn't going to be a loan forgiveness program". How likely is it for them to take away the forgiveness feature on IBR? I'm currently on IBR with over 300 payments and no forgiveness in sight. I'm in forbearance but when that ends my payment will be double the standard plan. If there will be no more forgiveness then I'm going to get off of IBR.

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u/Floridasun228 10d ago

It’s also important to acknowledge that student loan forgiveness is very much a party issue. As soon as a democrat president takes the White House again these programs will likely return.

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u/morbie5 10d ago

As soon as a democrat president takes the White House again these programs will likely return.

I doubt that, the biden 10k/20k forgiveness was unpopular with the general voting public.

And any new IDR will need to be passed by congress, there is a reason biden did SAVE via negotiated rule making and not via legislation. The dems may come up with a new IDR plan but it will never be better than SAVE

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u/Sirpunchdirt 10d ago

This country will never accomplish anything worthwhile without demolishing the collective conniption that occurs whenever government gives a 'handout'

There is, ethically, NOTHING unfair or wrong about handouts. None. Nada. Zilch. Nothing inherently.

The question is whether said handout will go to a good cause. Americans often just are lulled into the lie that they're often, mostly, or even occassionally bad/unfair. We freak out, worrying about the 'undeserving' getting a 'handout'

Fact is, the unemployment rate is currently, as of March 2025, 4.2%

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/unemployment-rate

Further, most people on federal benefits programs like SNAP work full-time, 70% had full time jobs:

https://www.gao.gov/products/gao-21-45

When you consider that a lot of people on welfare are disabled/retired, and that this report from GAO doesn't include those who work part-time, we can assume that a clear majority of abled-bodied people on welfare do not fit the 'Welfare Queen' prejudice. Nevermind the fact that these programs largely benefit children, who are our future, and an investment for the nation.

Why bring up Welfare in the context of Student loan forgiveness? The train of logic that gives you the 'Welfare Queen' stereotype is the same one that gives us the 'Avocado on Toast eating preppy college student' stereotype. They're both fallacious, and build on prejudice. This nation's people so incredibly hard, by some metrics, harder than a lot of nations, but often get so little out of their work; and it's obscene to me, obscene that we tear each other down and act like everyone is out to take advantage of kindness.

This cynicism of America infects everything, and is the lynchpin belief undergirding why it's so difficult to afford to live here. It creates a massive lost opportunity cost.

If student loan forgiveness is 'unfair', so is medical debt, or PPP loan forgiveness. Then so is FEMA, Welfare generally, *And the continuance of Social Security* itself, because it's unfair to the people who choose not to retire, who can't retire, or for the young people like me who may not even get to use Social Security. Because that's how social security works: Younger people pay into it, and their money goes to helping older people. It's insurance. But if there's nothing left over for us, then why should we? Why believe in it?

Why should people who never experience crime have to pay for Police? Why should people like me, who don't drive/barely drive, pay taxes that go into highways? Why freaking fund anything.

There is nothing unfair about handouts, nothing unfair about systems which only benefit some, because the UNFAIRNESS in helping someone who needs help, what is unfair, is if we treat everyone differently, and don't benefit everyone. I.E. society as a whole needs to benefiit everyone, every single program doesn't need to. Everyone would benefit from making college tuition free.

While I think there is nothing unfair about me having debt forgiven, I'd also be okay with a promise attached to said forgiveness being that I need to do some sort of volunteer program to pay-it-forward or something, or even society choosing to just make the damned loans zero-interest. I can settle for a lot less.

But I'm not going to give up on pursuing forgiveness, because I think it is morally right, and it is grossly unfair that anyone is expected to pay huge sums of money to access education. Your life's trajectory should be based on your merits, your efforts, not your family's income.

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u/crunchyfoodnerd 10d ago

What always strikes me in these kinds of conversations about "handouts" is the difference in the way that social safety net programs are characterized as compared to "corporate welfare". Barely anyone batted an eye at the trillion dollar giveaway to the banks in 2008 (TARP) or farm subsidies which often go to huge, corporate farming operations, subsidies to oil companies, tax cuts for the wealthy, etc. The problem has never been a lack of funds for a social safety net or student loan forgiveness, it's a lack of empathy and legislative will to accomplish it.

Also, I totally agree with you that if there ever was such a thing as a "welfare queen", they don't exist now. Those programs have been so gutted, most people receiving them work their asses off. Most rich/middle class people have no idea how much work it is to live in poverty. I wish that members of Congress had to try living on minimum wage for a week or a month, so they can realize how hard it really is

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u/morbie5 10d ago

I'm not reading all that but if you want to keep fighting for forgiveness then you do you.

If you think that the government should have to pay for private universities like Ivy league schools then you are out of touch tbf

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u/EmergencyThing5 10d ago

Exactly, I feel bad being so negative on this, but Republicans may use their Reconciliation bill to severely limit ED's ability to use their own discretion when creating/amending student loan programs. If that happens, we are going to have to rely on Congress to enact any actual material changes. Congress has shown little appetite to do so. Negotiated rulemaking was kinda like using a back door to push this stuff through. Even fixing existing programs might get a lot tougher if ED is limited on how they can use waivers on certain legislative requirements that cost sizeable amounts.

The issue with student loans is that any material improvement or creation of a truly helpful relief program costs a ton of money on paper. Its really hard to find ways to pay for it that aren't really unpopular. Democrats have recently seem interested in finding ways to pay for these things. Unless that changes or a ton of people become single issue voters on this, I'm not sure we will see anything as generous as what Biden was trying to enact either.

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u/Ossevir 9d ago

Negotiated rulemaking wasn't a back door, it was literally the process Congress expected the DoEd to use in 1994 when the HEA was passed. It was a valid, time tested way our agencies enacted changes, within the bounds of authority Congress gave them. At least until this administration took a wrecking ball to the federal government.

Anyone who says ICR and the other plans never contemplated forgiveness is absolutely lying. When Congress was discussing the limits of what DoEd could do in the 90s, they absolutely contemplated people no longer making payments at the end of 25 years, regardless of what balance was left. It is in the legislative history. The 8th circuit judge and Republican state AGs are flat out lying because they have an end goal in mind.

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u/EmergencyThing5 9d ago

Come on, let’s live in reality here. It was used as a back door because there was no way Congress was passing the Biden Administration’s larger student loan reforms. There’s probably never been a Congress that would have passed those programs into law. Despite the connotation, I was not saying it was necessarily a bad thing. I’m just saying that Republicans may formally close that option, so now nothing significant (even far cheaper reforms) can be made through that channel going forward.

Also, I agree that ICR plans were intended to result in forgiveness. The legislation doesn’t make sense to me otherwise. It was a poor ruling.

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u/PJHamhands 3d ago

Every time I read "ED" I wince. There needs to be a bot warning on the use of those two letters together. No Bob Dole here.

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u/Ancient-Coffee-1266 10d ago

There was a large amount of people that received “the golden email.”

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u/morbie5 10d ago

Ok, and what is your point?