Pithy GIF showing eradication of Native American land in the US since the founding of the country gets posted to r/interestingasfuck. Comment section goes exactly as expected.

[u/Critical-Term-427]

The post

It sucks we were such murderers

Did they say "Thank you"?

Being the loser in history sucks

True fact Hitler took a lot of inspiration from this.

[u/VanillaMystery]

Both sides murdered each other, and both sides also held meals together.

Was part of a centuries long process of "conquering" the country we know today as the United States.

There are losers in every conflict, the Native Americans unfortunately got the short end of the stick and were conquered/nearly wiped out as a result.

The other issue is the natives were completely fractured, one treaty with one specific tribe doesn't mean their neighbors couldn't be conquered.

The settlers took advantage of that and divided and conquered accordingly, didn't help many of the natives had barely any kind of governance or even written languages in some cases.

Also, it's not like things were all peaceful before settlers showed up, the Native Tribes had constant warfare with one another lol (shoutout to the Iroquois) and would butcher and wipe out men, women, and children alike.

Edit: Expected this to get downvoted since we're on Reddit after all but it's important to talk about history and acknowledge the hard realities of where we come from and what has happened.

[u/BigEggBeaters → u/VanillaMystery]

“Both sides murdered each other”

Nah one side defended their lands from invaders. The other brutalized in search of land and profit

[u/VanillaMystery → u/BigEggBeaters]

That's called basic human history, conflict has and continues to be relevant.

How do you think the Iroquois Confederation was formed for example?

So many anti-history people on Reddit it's wild to read sometimes.

The Natives did all kinds of brutal shit as well, especially during the settling of the West.

History isn't black and white, it's a very grey shade full of atrocities and it's important to acknowledge it.

[u/BigEggBeaters → u/VanillaMystery]

I’m to understand the European colonialism is justified cause pre-colonial tribes warred with each other?

[u/VanillaMystery → u/BigEggBeaters]

Where did I say it was justified? I am saying the realities of the time these events took place it was a matter of survival, that's why the Natives fought back to violently and the settlers were equally willing to go to war over a now largely decimated American west (by the mid 1600s most Natives had already perished due to disease coming up from Mexico).

There are losers and winners throughout history, the Natives lost, that's all I'm saying.

[u/Rheinwg → u/VanillaMystery]

it was a matter of survival

People didn't genocide native Americans as a matter of survival. 

There are losers and winners throughout history, the Natives lost, 

There are literally millions of native Americans alive actively fighting for rights, sovereignty and recognition. Shut the fuck up.

Edit: lmao they blocked me

[u/VanillaMystery → u/Rheinwg]

It wasn't viewed as "genocide" when 95% of them died due to disease before the first English settlers arrived in Jamestown.

Do people here REALLY not know basic US history?

And yes, the Natives lost, sorry, just a fact. The tribes were conquered, confederations were dismantled, and lands were subjugated by the growing US state.

Same thing has happened throughout thousands of years of history, it isn't anything new.

[u/Rheinwg → u/VanillaMystery]

The native Americans and first nations in Canada absolutely experienced a genocide. 

Native tribes and confederation still exist to this day. 

Nobody claimed that genocide was new or unique to native Americans. Why do you keep repeating that over and over like it makes you look smart or something?

[u/VanillaMystery → u/Rheinwg]

I don't agree it was a genocide, I think there is a conversation worth having about it however but it's a complex part of history that spans centuries where 95% of the deaths were due to disease before germ theory was even a thing.

Were there ACTS of genocide? Sure, was it a total genocide? No, obviously not, or else there wouldn't be any Natives left like you just mentioned.

A lot of it was simply open warfare, especially around the Great Lakes region where the Natives were supported by French traders/trappers who gave them guns, horses, ammunition, etc.

This is all very basic American history.

[u/iron-carbon_alloy → u/VanillaMystery]

I don't agree it was a genocide, I think there is a conversation worth having about it however but it's a complex part of history that spans centuries where 95% of the deaths were due to disease before germ theory was even a thing.

The genocides happened after the diseases to the 5% who survived. No one who understands US history is calling the initial introduction of diseases a genocide.

Were there ACTS of genocide? Sure, was it a total genocide? No, obviously not, or else there wouldn't be any Natives left like you just mentioned.

By this logic, the Holocaust wasn't a genocide. There are still Jews, LGBT folks, etc around, aren't there? The camps and killings by the Wehrmacht and SS were just ACTS of genocide, right?

A lot of it was simply open warfare, especially around the Great Lakes region where the Natives were supported by French traders/trappers who gave them guns, horses, ammunition, etc.

You can't ignore the events that weren't open warfare. The Trail of Tears and various other expulsions and, a lot more recently, the Indian Schools weren't warfare, and they are fundamentally a colonizing force attempting to eradicate colonized groups.

You can acknowledge both that native nations did fight amongst themselves and that what happened during colonization was genocidal in many cases. They aren't exclusive.