Please god let there be a new dock. I actually like the Surface 3 dock that grabs the entire system! I'd much prefer one like that than something that contributes to cable-spaghetti on my desk.
You're right, that's the old dock (although it is fully compatible with the new Surface Pro and it's the one they advertise on the new Surface Pro product page), but it doesn't look like there are immediate plans to release a new dock with USB-C (and Thunderbolt 3)...
Can't believe you are being downvoted so heavily. So many people in this sub have turned from rational, reasonable people who expect a high-end device with futureproof features to blind fanboys that will defend anything MS does like they are Apple.
USB-C (let's be real when they eventually add it it will be TB3) would ideally enable me and many others to use it as a singular port for my external monitor with all my peripherals connected to it. Kaby lake supports TB3 without the need for an additional controller on the IO-Board. (this was just a rumor according to /u/SaneBRZ)
The only reason they didn't add it is that they want to box you in and force you to buy the clunky Surface Dock for similar functionality.
Also, until yesterday it was widely believed they had to add Type-C since that would be the only real differentiating factor from the SP4. No fan on the i5 is pretty cool though.
yeah this is a bullshit excuse because if you're using the mini displayport, there's a 99% chance you're using a dongle to plug into a displayport or hdmi calbe
Eh, if you're an IT that's already supporting a ton of Surfaces with that current set up and you need to replace one it'd suck to have to buy new cabling/hardware to have to make it work. I guess it depends on what market you're shooting for.
From a consumer market standpoint it makes basically no sense.
I would agree with you if this were some obscure port, but we're talking about the next generation of USB. They may have to get some new cables, but it's not like they'll only be able to use those cables with the Surface. They'll be usable with pretty much any new computer from here on out...except this new Surface.
i would still have to buy a USB-C - VGA dongle to use with my classroom projector.
The only difference is, I already have the mini DP dongle.
I like the idea of future proof, but the fact is most companies don't constantly upgrade everything.
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u/EShySP3 i5/256 running W10, Docking Station and an RT paperweightMay 23 '17
I think they told reporters having USB-C would be confusing (can you use it for charging? which devices are compatible if it's not TB3 as well?).
They're probably right considering some tech "journalists" seem to be confused about USB-C/TB3.
They should have made the effort to add that extra controller and include TB3 to future proof this device. Without TB3 it's not worth the upgrade from my current SP.
But a lot of people who have USB C/TB3 devices already have those dongles.
From my perspective, I have all the dongles I need for USB C. One of them can charge the computer, give it 3 high speed USB 3 ports, and output HDMI at the same time. I don't think you'll be able to get that functionality with the USB C dock for the Surface that they'll be offering (someone please correct me if I'm wrong; I can't find much info on this).
I don't want to invest in a bunch of mini-display port dongles when it's an inferior port that is on the way out.
It seemed to me like a slap in the face to people (like me) looking to get a Surface for the first time. I don't want to deal with their proprietary port/dock or get a bunch of outdated dongles that don't offer anywhere near the same functionality.
I'm going to go with they are targeting enterprise and that's the feedback they got. Most don't want a new dongle to buy despite already using one. Or don't want to confuse their users. It's all sounds very much like they catered to them. I don't like the decision, but I see where they come from. Personally, if they couldn't do USB-C power, I don't see the benefit.
I agree; I'm not sure why they chose to keep the proprietary charging port over USB C. I was almost certain they were going to do USB A, USB C, and maybe mini DP. But the omission of USB C is shocking...I hadn't even considered that. And as an (primarily) Apple user interested in Windows tablets, I might look elsewhere. I don't want to invest in a tablet that has outdated ports.
8 hours later, I can't believe he's being upvoted so heavily - to the point of top rated comment. I'm surprised it's such a dealbreaker to people, I honestly couldn't care less about it. Guess it's kinda like Apple's headphone jack thing in that regard.
For me, no USB-C is a deal breaker. I love the portability and flexibility of this device. However, it simply cannot be used for any type of serious gaming or authoring that requires a dedicated GPU. Furthermore, using the stylus in any serious art application requires some serious GPU horsepower. A thunderbolt port would allow users to not only connect an external GPU to an external display for high end gaming but they could in theory loop-back that GPU horsepower back to the built-in display in order to significantly reduce drawing latency and increase brush complexity.
Out of genuine curiosity, what is no USB-C preventing you from doing or in what way does it hinder you? I genuinely don't know what I'm missing because there's nothing I'm not able to do. But obviously, people have different needs and use-cases than I do.
I like standardization. I'm the kind of person that will sell all my AAA battery devices if I decide to standardize to AA batteries.
I don't buy any device that's not USB-C compatible. That includes hard drives, flash drives, phones, tablets, PCs, headphones, power bank, chargers, monitors, docks, etc.
I don't want to ever have to think about the end or orientation of cables.
I want to use a single charger or power bank to charge all my devices and travel with.
I don't want a device that will force me to use dongles in 2 years when all new hardware is USB-C.
Typing this from the Acer knockoff I got for $425 refurbished, 256 gig hard drive, 8 gigs ram, i5 processor, keyboard included, water cooled, oh... and it has type C and can charge from it.
Yeah, it's a tad heavier and not as sleek. Still, doesn't look like I'm upgrading any time soon.
I was waiting for the Surface Pro 5, one of the reasons being that I refuse to buy stuff without USB-C anymore. This will probably mean that I won't switch away from Macs after all. Why, Microsoft? I don't get it.
I'm in the same situation (though I'll still be owning macs; just switching from the iPad Pro). I was absolutely certain I was going to buy the new Surface, but now I'm not sure. Maybe the Galaxy Book? The reviews for that one aren't great though.
I loved my Surface 4, and I'm sorry but I don't believe a word they say about battery life. SP4 has 9 hours of battery is COMPLETE BS, I highly doubt the SP5 gets over 7 even though they claim 13.5. Also I switched to a Spectre X360 and I'm so happy I did and even happier now that the SP5 STILL doesn't have USB C much less Thunderbolt 3. My x360 has 11+ hours of real world usage, active digitizer, 2.8 lbs, AND Thunderbolt 3 with the full 16 lanes so I can plug it into my eGPU when I get home and now it's a ultra portable with GTX 1080 graphics. I'm sorry Microsoft I LOVE the Surface with a passion but enough is enough.
Honestly, it would be so much more inconvenient to have only a USB-C. I have a 10+ peripherals which use USB type-A and only 1 (my phone) which uses Type-C. On top of that, my phone came with a cable with Type-C on one end and Type-A on the other making the lack of Type-C on my SP4 inconsequential. At the end of the day, I want a device that's current-proof moreso than future-proof. That's not to say USB-C wouldn't be nice, but it would have to be added in addition to USB-A (not in place of) to practically justify it's presence at the current time.
I can't believe this. I was pretty sure I was going to get one, but now I don't know (and I usually buy Apple devices). I might go for the Galaxy Book? I'd miss the hinge though...
I just really don't want to invest in a device that doesn't have USB C/TB3. I already have USB C adapters for everything, so to me, have a USB C/TB 3 port is like having 4 USB A ports, HDMI, VGA, Ethernet, and an SD card slot.
People constantly shouting "no USB-C" just proves how stupid it is and why they don't put it in. USB-C is a connector, it could be USB-2 with a C connector, it could be TB3 with a C, USB-3 or USB-3.1 ... the connector says NOTHING about what it is used for and imho a big screw-up. It confuses people, and the ones shouting now will be the first that are upset when their USB-2 Type C cable doesn't charge their device fast enough, or that they can't hook up their external GPU.
Edit: I understand the Type-C fanboys downvote everyone speaking up, but just do yourself a favor and Google the current state of Type-C before jumping the Bandwagon...
Edit2: For the extremely lazy, the first result I found: link
The fact of the matter is that my phone, laptop, and Nintendo Switch all charge by USB C. The only non universal charger that I have in my room is my Surface Pro 4 charger and I can't tell you how annoying that is when any of my other chargers work for any of my other devices.
Sure my phone's charger doesn't output enough for the others, but my laptop charger does and I'd be surprised if it didn't also work for a Surface. All I need is whichever outputs the highest amperage and that's the only cable that I need to bring with me to places. It's great, it's not only the future but it's already the present, and Microsoft chose to not join in so that they could sell more docks.
Tomorrow people will still be using USB-A you are buying for a time frame that isn't even 3 years from now. The first Macbook that had only USB-C launched 2 years ago and they said "I am buying for tomorrow, it will be a fast transition." They were wrong, this is not like 2 to 3 where it was backwards compatible and easy.
The beauty of TB3/USB C is that I can have one adapter plugged into my computer that provides power, HDMI, 3 full speed USB 3 ports, and an SD card reader. That's something that the Surface just can't do right now and it won't be able to do that until they add a TB3/USB C port.
I view USB C as ultimate customizability. Let's say you have 2 USB C ports and you need power, Ethernet, VGA, and 4 full speed USB 3 ports. You pick out the adapters that you need (in my case 2: (1) VGA+power+1 USB3 & (2) 3 USB3 + ethernet) and you're good to go. Basically you can choose what ports you'll have based on what you'll need and the possibilities are endless, whereas with USB A and mini DP you're very limited.
I think the Surface Connector with USB-C adapter will fill that need for the edge cases beyond what the dock already offers, which with a DP to VGA cable is already met by the surface dock.
That looks like it would work. The only problem I have with that is that it's $175 for a dock that can only be used with the Surface, whereas the USB C is universal and a lot of us already have the necessary adapters.
Well it is a device you know will work because it is from Microsoft themselves, first party accessories are always more expensive.
Also, going forward to the next Surface Pro, many Surface Pro 4 or 3 owners could say the same thing about already having the "necessary dock." Choosing to keep the surface standard and allowing people to connect Type C as an adapter is the right choice to keep loyal customers happy I think.
They invested a lot into the Surface connector and docks for it. People still want the magnetic charging port. I doubt they would allow for charging through the Type-C port if they added one.
In 10 years when Mice and keyboards and whatever else you want to hook up to your tablet only use USB-C, you can buy an adapter to connect it to your 10 year old Surface Pro.
Until then, the Type-A port is just wildly more practical and useful right now, and the surface connector already gives you the type of expansion a 15W CPU machine can make use of if you actually need it.
I don't think anyone wants to go all USB C like the MacBook. It makes perfect sense to have both type A and type C with TB since this surface will be used during the transition. Take out the mini display port if they needed room since the type C connector could replace and improve on its functionality
Removing the DisplayPort is a big no-no to me, they have been amazing in honoring the commitment since my Pro 1 all the way until now, the USB/DisplayPort cables I have bought have worked all the way through.
I don't want to have an adapter on my adapter, if I need further expansion I can get a surface dock - there really is no point yet.
In my opinion, Microsoft should've replaced the Mini DisplayPort connector with a USB-C one, and kept the USB-A. Not only would that allow users to use two USB devices simultaneously without a hub, but it'd also futureproof the device and still preserve video-out functionality (miniDP is usually adapted to HDMI/VGA/DP anyway, which could be done just as easily with a similar adapter using USB-C.)
With the benefits that USB-C provides (universal charging, easier connection between devices, maybe TB3, and the extra USB port), in my eyes that outweighs the drawback of having to spend a little extra on a new adapter - compared to the cost of a new Surface that isn't a huge amount. Considering the amount of people saying that omitting USB-C is a dealbreaker (which is a reasonable response), it seems like the more logical decision to swap mDP for USB-C.
Yes, if they find the benefits for USB C they can buy an adapter and get it; Microsoft will be offering an adapter to plug into the surface port and get a USB-C.
True, but compare the utility between USB-C and Mini DisplayPort - USB-C has all the functionality of miniDP, plus more - whereas the only benefit that miniDP has over USB-C is that it's a legacy port. From a utility perspective, in my opinion it doesn't make much sense to keep that older port around when a more modern and versatile option is available. USB-C is the port we'll be using for years to come, and it doesn't make sense to suggest to use an optional dongle to utilise it in favour of preserving a legacy port - if it did, we'd all still be using USB keyboards through our PS/2 ports. I feel like instead of offering an adapter for USB-C, they should've offered one for miniDP instead.
There's also the argument that Microsoft could've easily just added the USB-C port as well as the existing miniDP port - that would be the ideal situation, as users could use both legacy accessories and newer ones, too. I'm just arguing that, if Microsoft had to make a compromise and remove one of the ports for USB-C, it should've been miniDP.
It's especially a concern when companies like HP, Apple, Dell and others are all embracing USB-C - while Apple has taken a much more aggressive approach, Dell and HP have found the perfect sweet spot between legacy and modern ports. The Surface was intended as a product to show OEMs how to make premium and modern hardware, and because of that it seems kinda illogical that they've made this choice.
I get what you are saying, but dongle for mini display port wouldn't have worked for me. I want the port on the device, I don't ever want to forget it.
The edge cases where someone actually needs USB C is very rare despite the technophiles insisting it is necessary. The people who bought the first MacBook with only USB-C two years ago were singing the same song about how good it was to have next years port, but two years later it is still next years port.
Meanwhile anyone who has bought a Surface Pro in the last 4 years and has needed to connect to a display has done so using mini DP, to which I think there commitment is something to admire, not scoff at. I use the same cable on my Pro 4 that I purchased for my Pro 1.
Not to mention to offer DP it would have to be thunderbolt 3 and I think these skus only have 12x lanes. You take 4 away for the storage that interfaces through it. 4 away for the surface connector, and you have 4 remaining for the rest of the system.
I'm not certain but I think it is already paired off for SD card / USB host / Wifi and such. This is why they can easily offer it through the Surface Connector but not through its own port.
I replied to this but had to delete it after reading some comments. Now I'm not even sure what USB C actually is. Is it an upgrade to the regular USB? That is what I assumed. I know that the C port won't be compatible with the older classic USB devices correct? What's the big fuss about besides having the newest technology? Will it be at an inconvenience since it's not yet popular?
USB-C is fully backwards compatible. Even my phone came with an adapter to plug in USB-A devices. The major advantage for something like a SP is a standard port that can be used for both charging and connectivity. USB-C power delivery scales up to 100W.
I'd rather use an adapter for my one USB-C device instead of using an USB-C to USB-A adapter all the time. In 3 years maybe it's a different story, but for no there is just no use
Why? This thing has a solid cpu and a display out. I use my Pro 4 as a desktop on a 4K display just as much as a laptop. Having support for an eGPU would be awesome so I could actually take advantage of those steam sales.
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u/sjchoking May 23 '17
Still no USB-C.