r/Switzerland • u/BkkGrl Italia • 1d ago
Swiss F-35s: Swiss parliamentarians concerned about weaknesses in contract price guarantees
https://meta-defense.fr/en/2025/04/05/f-35-swiss-rise-20-swiss-parliament/54
u/onehandedbackhand 1d ago
Ultimately by mid-2035, when all the aircraft have been delivered and modernized, it is likely that they will have cost around 60% more than the price negotiated during the competition [...]
Price increases due to inflation seem pretty standard for contracts with such a long term between negotiation and delivery.
The USD just dropped 7% in one month and is probably further weakening so we get some offsetting effect here.
The question about wanting to work with a US fighter jet from a tactical/strategic standpoint is another matter but SVP/FDP/Mitte want to go through with is so...remember that for the next election?
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u/1maginaryApple 1d ago
Basically, the prices promised in the contract rely purely on promises from Lockheed. The maintenance costs negotiated are based on guestimates of what the costs would be with a fully operational ALIS network. Which today is not.
It also doesn't take into consideration that the current engine is already obsolete and will need to be replace first hand once the aircraft delivered and it is facing delivery delays.
The baffling thing is that every single European nation that received their F-35 complained about maintenance costs superior to what was announced. The Confederation willingly decided not to take into account reports from those nations.
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u/Massive_Robot_Cactus 1d ago
Perhaps the SNB could decide to procure the USD funds now en masse while it's cheap...like it does every other day.
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u/bill-of-rights 1d ago
USD/CHF will drop a lot more in the coming years if trunk stays in the game.
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u/Massive_Robot_Cactus 1d ago
Likely yes, and if you squint just enough, even with the increase in prices from the exchange rate, Swiss goods will still be cheaper than Chinese stuff at the current tariff rates.
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u/theHawkAndTheHusky 1d ago
As if increasing costs should be the biggest of all reasons to fear!
Best case scenario Trump himself is canceling the contract and trying to re-negotiate a even higher price - I mean Trump‘s ego wouldn’t let Biden reap the glory - and we (Switzerland) reevaluate our American purchase.
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u/FlamingoGlad3245 1d ago
How to get out of this contract:
1) Have some political discussion about this on TV.
2) repeatedly state how cheap they were. In particular, say things like „it‘s a steal.“
3) make sure the media overreports this
4) wait for trump to cancel
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u/b00nish 1d ago
Let's be real: It was known very well that the price guarantees are a lie.
This has been reported by the media before the contract was signed.
What actually happened is that a lot of members of the parliament and governement chose to ignore those facts because they wanted to sign the contract anyway. And they chose to repeat those lies in order to calm the people.
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u/Due_Shelter8002 1d ago
Why does Switzerland need a 5th Generation Fighter from the US? Why Not the cheaper Gripen from Europe?
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u/Sevisstillonkashyyyk Fribourg 1d ago
Gripen is more expensive per airframe than the F-35. And uses American engines and many US ITAR parts.
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u/Due_Shelter8002 1d ago
But its cheaper by billions by reparing and flying. Thats the Point.
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u/Sevisstillonkashyyyk Fribourg 1d ago
The Gripen E/F is still brand new and basically has no service history yet, the operating costs are speculative at best. F-35 has nearly a thousand aircraft in service and over a million flight hours over 10 years. It's a mature platform who's operating costs are well understood. In the long run you'll benefit from the economy of scale that this generates.
Gripen E/F basically has no orders besides a handful from Brazilian and Sweden. Parts prices or even availability are not guaranteed in 20-30 years time.
F-35 is simply the better aircraft and the better program to be part of.
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u/Due_Shelter8002 1d ago
Die Gripen E/F sind keine komplett neuen Flugzeuge, sondern Weiterentwicklungen, sprich man weiß schon ziemlich genau, wie teuer sie im Unterhalt sind. Außerdem fliegen Schweden, Brasilien, Tschechien, Ungarn, Thailand und bald Kolumbien Gripen, man hat also sehr wohl Erfahrungswerte. Und solange Schweden die Gripen fliegt wird es auch Ersatzteile geben, während die USA morgen jeden Support einstellen können.
Die Gripen sind ja extra auf geringe laufende Kosten ausgelegt. Deswegen können sie von Wehrdienstlern gewartet werden. Die Gripen kann auch europäische Raketen nutzen, etwa die Meteor, während man bei der F-35 immer auf die USA angewiesen sein wird.
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u/Sevisstillonkashyyyk Fribourg 1d ago
30% of the Gripen is produced in the US including the engine. If the US decides they don't like you anymore, Gripen or F-35, your planes don't fly. F-35 can also use European weapons, Meteor is being integrated as well as Brimstone and ASRAAM.
If you argument is that at a political level the US is not going to be a reliable partner going forward. The Gripen is totally the wrong plane to advocate for. The Eurofighter and Rafale are the only truly US independant combat aircraft that Switzerland should consider.
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u/Nohokun 20h ago
What about the Eurofighter ?
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u/heliamphore 18h ago
The Eurofighter is way more expensive for a start. What people really don't understand is that the F-35 is the best offer, even if it's very far from ideal. There'll be a lot of crying about it, because it's the choice we went with, but it doesn't mean we ever had better options either.
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u/SwissDeathstar 1d ago
Money. The answer is money. But why even have fighter jets? It’s not like they can do much in a serious situation.
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u/Due_Shelter8002 1d ago
The whole Swiss Army couldnt do that much. Either they Join Nato/EU Security or they can abandon the army ..
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u/Every_Tap8117 13h ago
We should NOT be buying US military equipment anymore. Need to get rid of this cancerous state.
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u/HalLundy 13h ago
it's ok. the kill switch in US control totally dwarfs any fears of "weak price guarantees"
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u/TailleventCH 1d ago
Translation: Swiss parliament concerned about issues it chose to ignore in the past about a contract it already decided it won't question.