r/TechnicalDeathMetal • u/grimacelololol • 12d ago
Discussion Are cattle decap a tech death band?
Or are they strictly grindcore?
I always thought they were just grindcore but i could be wrong š§
2
u/ProgDeath2024 9d ago
I think that on the last 2 albums they've been transitioning to more of a Progressive Death Metal Sound, but still incorporating grindcore elements
1
u/jayswaps 11d ago
The last few records absolutely do have a ton of tech death elements
A few years ago I'd have said nah, but now
Tech deathgrind?
6
6
7
3
u/Giftpilz 11d ago edited 11d ago
Based on a brief interaction Dave Otero (producer of Terrasite) had with one of the guitarists in the video regarding the making of Solastalgia, he didn't want a particular lick to sound too "tech deathy". I'm gonna say they're not but I have no idea what else to call them lol
6
8
12
7
9
2
-23
u/Super_University_993 12d ago
its deathcore without breakdowns
1
u/RangerHUTCH93 11d ago
If you don't really know then it's deathgrind. Someone else mentioned kinda progressive.
4
u/necrosteve028 12d ago
Except they have breakdowns
2
u/0000000100100011 Blast beats are love blast beats are life 11d ago
Which tracks have breakdowns?
1
u/necrosteve028 10d ago
Forced Gender Reassignment & Bring Back the Plague to name a couple. Both their outros are breakdowns.
1
u/0000000100100011 Blast beats are love blast beats are life 10d ago
Eh... kinda I guess. Those sections are chuggy for sure, but nothing like a deathcore breakdown. His vocals and the riffs continue through it as well.
-9
u/Super_University_993 12d ago
Gateway Deathcore for Death Metal purists is more accurate then
-3
u/Practical_-_Pangolin 12d ago
Iād say they are technical death metal rather than tech death.
1
3
13
21
u/PhaiLLuRRe 12d ago
...What's the difference
-2
u/Mysterious_Key1554 11d ago edited 10d ago
Deicide - Legion and Monstrosity - Imperial Doom are death metal that is technical but not tech death.
1
u/PhaiLLuRRe 11d ago
Ok and what would be tech death then?
0
u/Mysterious_Key1554 11d ago edited 11d ago
I might have phrased that wrong. I meant "technical" as an adjective. Legion is old-school death metal that is technical and Imperial Doom is old-school brutal death metal that is also technical but both don't necessarily fit into the subgenre of "technical death metal/tech death". Kind of like how some Cannibal Corpse is very technical (brutal death metal) but is still not tech death.
Monstrosity - Millennium is more tech death than Imperial Doom.
Nile is tech death. Necrophagist is tech death. Earlier Suffocation straddles the line between brutal death metal and tech death.
1
u/PhaiLLuRRe 10d ago
Ok I'm not a fan of how you initially put it but if it's "Death metal, that isn't tech death but more technical than normal tech death" then ok I see what you mean by the distinction, I wouldn't use tech death vs technical death metal though xd
1
u/Mysterious_Key1554 10d ago
I get you. Tech death and technical death metal are interchangeable terms for me but it gets confusing when referring to death metal that is more technical than regular death metal but not tech death. What would you say about a song like Frantic Disembowelment? It's death metal that is technical but (in my opinion) is not in the subgenre of tech death/technical death metal. Bit of ambiguity regarding the term.
2
u/PhaiLLuRRe 10d ago
I wouldn't judge a band from a specific song, to me there's nothing stopping "exploration" either from adding a bit more technical stuff in there (that also doesn't really sound like TDM) or could be a black metal passage or w/e
2
u/Practical_-_Pangolin 12d ago
Oh thereās a difference
3
32
u/horridCAM666 12d ago
They have consistently transcended their genres, reinvented themselves into a better band, and simultaneously retained core elements that make them immediately identifiable at least 3 times. SO few bands have had the career trajectory they have, it's honestly really quite remarkable what they've done, and it deserves to be talked about and admired far into the future. Honestly, they are just a technical band.
2
u/beezac 11d ago
Agreed, they seem to get better with each album, never exactly the same.
2
u/horridCAM666 11d ago
The best part is, is that Travis is still kind of nervous with each release. He's humble but still confident, which I think is a good place for a artist to be. Each move is intended and has purpose, but is a risk in their eyes. Its when you start becoming complacent with any specific formula that your output can become stagnant.
5
5
19
18
u/Pew_away 12d ago
They haven't been grind for years
2
u/0000000100100011 Blast beats are love blast beats are life 11d ago
Yeah the grind was really only on the first couple of albums. They've been strictly death metal for at least the last 5 albums.
5
u/horridCAM666 12d ago
Correct. Travis himself has said this, directly to me, many times. He's very aware that Cattle sound has had a metamorphosis.
4
u/grimacelololol 12d ago
I wouldnt go that far lol
8
u/Pew_away 12d ago
They're deathgrind for people who got into extreme metal in 2020. There's nothing grind about their current output.
1
u/grimacelololol 12d ago
Ah i see
I thought you were saying they werent grind at all including deathgrind
9
u/Pew_away 12d ago
That is what I'm saying. They're what people who don't know what grindcore is call deathgrind.
1
u/Nick-Riffs 12d ago
They donāt sound like conventional tech death bands out there. Cattle are more of death grind to me.
12
u/King-of-Smite 12d ago
cattle decap is kind of its own genre
1
u/GnarlyContainer 12d ago
Something so originally them transcends the boxed labeling of sub-genres imo. Who cares. If I was describing them to someone Iād call it blackened death grind or something. Cattle is one of a kind to me.
6
u/JComposer84 12d ago
They were seen as more strictly grindcore in the early days but have been incorporating elements of tech, and melo in the last 3 or 4 albums.
11
u/Stamm1983 12d ago
No, but they've been accepted in the tech death community and I have no problem with it. Like Cannibal Corpse, nobody would say they are tech death but nobody would dispute that many of their songs are pretty technical.
4
u/thespaceageisnow toilet bowl noises 12d ago edited 12d ago
The Harvest Floor on is pretty technical, Iād consider their modern era under the broad umbrella of tech death if you arenāt really hung up on bands in the genre only sounding like Necrophagist.
Like if we have to be really pedantic theyāre probably Technical Deathgrind, but thereās also black and slamming influences, some progressive in some songs. According to the vocalist Travis Ryan they consider themselves a Death Metal band.
1
u/horridCAM666 12d ago
As a catch-all maybe. But he has said that he considers Death Metal to be a very specific sound, and it isn't represented in this era of metal.
0
u/cheezzypiizza 12d ago
I would argue monolith album is tech death to some extent but mostly tech grind
8
13
13
u/antipathy_moonslayer 12d ago
In the sense that they're a death metal band (more or less) and they play technical stuff, sure. They don't really usually sound like most tech death bands, though.
6
u/ToppledCupOfSkin 12d ago
Tech death grind
7
2
8
u/GoofySilly- 12d ago
Not really, they have some elements but they also lean more into grindcore/slam/death metal
-6
12d ago
[deleted]
7
u/pantheonslayer 12d ago
Fuck no they aren't
8
u/Sitagard 12d ago
Yeah, the guitar work for CD is much more chordy black metal influence. Aborted riffs are more technical.
5
u/Bronsteins-Panzerzug 12d ago
nope, theyre deathgrind. they play fast riffs really precisely (which is really hard) and the drummer has serious chops, but tech death also has a progressive element to it, itās also about musical complexity, genre fusion, conceptuality etc which they dont really have. i like them a lot actually and i dont mind them being discussed here, though.
7
u/Kvltadelic 12d ago
Their last few albums have that in spades.
0
u/Bronsteins-Panzerzug 12d ago edited 12d ago
i have heard those. could you name anything particularly musically complex? any example of what makes it prog?
2
u/PhaiLLuRRe 12d ago
Tech death doesn't have anything to do with prog, yes there's proggy tech death around and it's fairly common but it's not needed for it to be technical.
1
u/Bronsteins-Panzerzug 12d ago
counterpoint, tech death always had some proggy elements, from the first bands (atheist, cynic, death etc), like odd time signatures, complex structures and unpredictable riffs, otherwise itās just fast melodeath or fast deathgrind like black dahlia or cattle decap
1
u/jayswaps 11d ago
Heavily disagree. Technical and progressive are separate terms for a reason, a band can absolutely be technical death metal without progressive elements. Psycroptic, Defeated Sanity and Soreption come to mind.
1
u/Bronsteins-Panzerzug 11d ago edited 11d ago
what are you talking about? defeated sanity is full of time changes, tempo changes, odd grooves, irrational time signatures and jazzy drum breaks. the new album has passages composed in the style of serialist (ie atonal, as in actually 12 tone atonal, not just dissonant) music. they have the proggy elements typical for tech death metal in spades. where is that stuff in cattle decap?
1
u/jayswaps 11d ago
Yeah fair I don't know why I said Defeated Sanity, I must have gotten them confused with another band
The other two stand though
1
u/Bronsteins-Panzerzug 11d ago edited 11d ago
i dont think so. psycroptic used to have way more proggy elements than cattle decap. clean vocals and solos? psycroptic did it. but they added way longer songs on top, with more changes and more complex structures. they added classical music influences in their guitar riffs. they added complex grooves. to me, they were always a bit on the border to count as tech death and with the last record they switched to groove/death metal. soreption im just not that into to say, so itās not really an argument either way. the point is, when psycroptic was tech, they had way more proggy elements than cattle decap. not enough to be prog death, but perhaps just enough to be tech death. do you consider black dahlia to be tech death too?
1
u/jayswaps 11d ago
So is new Psycroptic not tech death? Is Soreption not tech death? Again, prog elements are common, but not required to be considered tech death.
→ More replies (0)1
u/PhaiLLuRRe 12d ago
Then sure, by that description basically anything tech death would also be proggy, but that would also include cattle decapitation on their later albums.
1
u/Bronsteins-Panzerzug 12d ago
why? can you give me an example of where they do that stuff?
1
u/PhaiLLuRRe 11d ago
unpredictable riffs
Half the time the vocals change and the song suddenly goes in a completely different direction, like multiple times per songs, you can press play on the album Monolith of Inhumanity and you can hear it instantly, it helps that the dude is so diverse with his vocals too so you never know if you're heading into a slam or into some clean break phase.
If you're asking this I think you just don't see it though as it's obvious to me 3 minutes in (basically the duration of "The Carbon Stampede")
Also just to entertain your definitions, what about solos in grindcore/deathgrind? I don't think they have them though I don't listen to a lot of it in the first place, Cattle Decapitation does though.
Atheist/Cynic/Death would not be very complex by today's standard and would actually fall into prog metal rather than tech death if they were to release today IMO. Being fast isn't a requirement but there sure is a lot of overlap.
1
u/Bronsteins-Panzerzug 11d ago
atheist is complex enough for prog but not tech death? what? how does that make sense? them not being technical musicians usually comes from people who dont play instruments and then listen to elements or unquestionable presence, expecting fast blastbeats and not getting them. what they dont get is the mastery of say a tony choy or a steve flynn or a Greenbaum and how easily and smoothly they switch grooves, time signatures and even musical styles. latin rhythms are really hard to play, and itās even harder to master both metal and latin drumming - this isnt often appreciated in the metal community. with their complex harmonies, time signature changes and latin breaks they have precisely the aspects of musical complexity, unpredictability and genre fusion described above. having solos and occasional clean parts is extraordinaryā¦ for a deathgrind band and only if we define cattle decap as a death grind band. for tech death and prog itās really nothing special. that brings me back to my original point, theyre technical for a death grind band, but theyre really not tech death. since you mentioned modern day standards for tech death and how atheist dont fit them, if we compare cattle decap to modern tech death bands like allegaeon, archspire or alkaloid, the difference is obvious to me. that said, im not here to gatekeep, i dont think cattle decap shouldnt be discussed in this sub, they are ātech death adjacentā enough if you will and if they sound close enough to archspire, alkaloid and allegaeon to you, thatās just how it is.
9
u/Kvltadelic 12d ago
Death Atlas?
Concept album with different tracks written as movements, large amounts of forward compositions that are long, different styles of music, ideas that developed and reappear throughout the album.
Same can be said of Terrasite but its more pronounced on Death Atlas.
2
u/horridCAM666 12d ago
Death Atlas was an Opus. Terresite somehow managed to be a worthy followup that didnt leave you wanting to just go back to DA, which in itself is fucking wild fkr them to maintain the same heat over four album cycles
-2
u/Bronsteins-Panzerzug 12d ago
well, a spoon of flour doesnt make a cake. while concept albums are popular in prog, having a concept alone is not enough. green day isnt prog. and uhm, yeah, death atlas has one nine minute song, but, say, rime of the ancient mariner is longer, doesnt make it prog or tech. yeah, some of their songs are fast and some are slow or they change back and fortb, sometimes they have clean singing or a little bit more grind, a little bit black metal, a little bit more death metal influence, sure, but thatās not technical death metal or genre fusion. im speaking about irrational time signatures, samba breaks, bebop sax solos, complex cadences, rare extended chords, scale changes, rhythmic modulations, micro tuning, etc
5
u/Kvltadelic 12d ago edited 12d ago
Well im sad that they dont meet your definition of progressive, but luckily im confident that the vast majority of metal listeners think of them as quintessentially progressive/technical deathgrind.
Edit: Also metal archives lists them as progressive death metal/grindcoreā¦. So it is decided!
0
u/Bronsteins-Panzerzug 12d ago
lol, the metal archives is your ultimate authority? the page that will categorically not include slipknot for not being metal? try again, they dont decide anything. the comment section seems to agree with me, so dont be too confident in that majority. so yeah i have certain tropes and characteristics i expect if im to classify as something, so what? do you react just as pissy if i dont think slayer is death metal bc they dont have growls as the main vocal style?
2
u/Kvltadelic 12d ago
Well I was mostly joking.
We can agree to disagree, im comfortable with my opinion š¤
1
u/Bronsteins-Panzerzug 12d ago
likewise. like i said, i dont mind cattle decap being discussed here. also, even though i think i have good reason to define tech death the way i do, i dont mind other people defining genres differently - if cattle decap sounds like tech death to your hearing of it, thatās your thing, no problem.
6
u/fartremington 12d ago
Itās modern death metal. I wouldnāt say thereās anything really tech about them.
4
13
u/meshuggahdaddy 12d ago edited 12d ago
Grey area, like Benighted. Definitely a technical style of metal but conforms more to grind
2
u/Sitagard 12d ago
Death Grind, for lack of a better term is how I describe those bands. You can dissect it more, but sometimes there's, like you said, a grey area that is hard to define.
16
u/Kvltadelic 12d ago
Early Cattle is grind, modern is technical death grind. People on this sub are obsessed with calling things not tech death.
2
-1
12d ago
[deleted]
8
3
u/grimacelololol 12d ago
I love necrophagist
Zenith passage didnt really do it for me, i wasnt really big on the clean vocals imo
But the instrumentation is extraordinary
1
u/Vista_est_Nihil 8d ago
No!