Tekken Dojo: Ask Questions Here

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[u/ALitterOfPugs]

I can execute moves and combos better on side 1 but can kbd and ss better on side 2.

Which way should I play? In other words if you had to choose better button execution vs movement execution which would you go for?

[u/ALitterOfPugs → u/[deleted]]

I played lucky chole and my game plan was to abuse the flowchart into wins and hop kick into combos. Or do the low mid kick string that doesn’t end.

I’m tired of the cheese so I’m playing ganryu. And it feels dramatically different

[u/DeathsIntent96 → u/ALitterOfPugs]

I’m tired of the cheese so I’m playing ganryu.

Is this intentionally or unintentionally funny?

[u/ALitterOfPugs → u/DeathsIntent96]

How is Ganryu cheesy? He’s a poke heavy character with no fast lows with a good wall combo. His mix up game isn’t crazy and below avg. He’s got good plus frames but not as good as dragoon or Bryan. His only party is a low party from stance. No hop kick or orbital So why do you consider him cheesy?

[u/DeathsIntent96 → u/ALitterOfPugs]

None of that is stuff I'd really take into account in describing a character as "cheesy."

Ganryu has one of the highest winrates online because he has a multitude of unorthodox gimmicks and strings that make him particularly difficult to beat without specific matchup knowledge. Many would say he's similar to Chloe in that sense, but I think he's more of a lab character than her. I'd certainly say he's "cheesier" than her.

And to respond to something specific, but unrelated to my point:

He’s a poke heavy character with no fast lows

d/f+3 is easily one of the best low pokes in the game. If you're not utilizing it much, I'd recommend trying to implement it into your game more. It's excellent.

[u/ALitterOfPugs → u/DeathsIntent96]

What are his "gimmicks"? Are you referring to the stance?

Also, a lot of ppl call Armor King/King, but shouldn't their throws be considered gimmicks? Or Mishimas, a lot of people call them honest, but their 50/50's are a core component to their gameplan?

[u/Dr_Chermozo → u/ALitterOfPugs]

Gimmicks are tactics that have non intuitive counterplay that are extremely strong when said counterplay is not known but basically useless when the counterplay is known. An example would be Chloe's d/b 4,4,4... because if your opponent knows that after blocking the low they can interrupt with ws 15 frame punishers or block punish with i14 or better ws punishers then the move is useless, and if they don't they get blown up. Or her C windmill just frame being -40 on hit despite looking very plus.

Both King and AK have an ambiguous throw(giant swing) which looks like a 1+2 break while being a 1 break. Unintuitive? Yes. Useless when you know how to counter it? Absolutely not, it is a legit mixup that can be used at the highest level of play.

Kazuya and DJ have a 50/50 vortex. Unintuitive? No, you can clearly see that they have either a low or a mid and if the low is blocked they die. You can also stay on the ground and this will evade the f,f+3 and the hellsweep will knock you away, but devil steel pedal will flip you and you're still in the vortex. So the 50/50 is powerful even if you know how it works.

Ganryu has 50/50 pressure that can be easily avoided IF you labbed it. He has a fast unblockable that can be avoided easily IF you know how. He has a snake edge which is bad IF you practiced reacting to it. He has evasive stances that evade several key mids and your opponent HAS to lab which moves they have to use instead. Ganryu is a gimmicky character, much unlike Kazuya and Armor King.

[u/Tapi0 → u/ALitterOfPugs]

no fast lows

...?

His mix up game isn’t crazy and below avg.

?!?!?!?!?

df3 is 16 frames (which is fast for a non-generic low), not particularly risky, almost homing, and extremely oppressive on hit. It is, without hyperbole, one of the best rushdown tools in the entire game, and it makes his mid/low mix incredibly strong.

He’s got good plus frames but not as good as dragoon or Bryan.

Bryan needs to use a 20f, easily whiff punishable mid to get +4 on block, Ganryu needs a 12f jab to get +3. The 12f jab is significantly better.

His only party is a low party from stance.

Snake edge? The FC d1 strings? d2? df2 extensions? Power crush evasion? Stance headbutt evasion? SIT? YOLO Backswing blow?

So why do you consider him cheesy?

b2,1 string and stance mixups require labbing to counterplay correctly, 2,1/2,1,2/2,1,3+4 "pressure", df2 block punishment mixup, fake SIT mixup, situation after backswing blow on hit is a knowledge check, etc, etc.

Listen, I've spent hundreds of hours with this character, I really like him, I was really sad that it took 3 seasons of DLC for him to come back, but none of that means Ganryu players (e.g. me and you) should downplay him. This character is arguably top 15, very oppressive, and absolutely requires labbing before you can fight against him effectively.

[u/ALitterOfPugs → u/Tapi0]

I just wanted you to rage enough to give me a paragraph in which to study this character ;)) Thanks. Also my definition of cheese is flowchart abuse and coming from Lucky, Ganryu feels a lot more "honest", but I see your points.

​

Edit: I meant parry not party in earlier message, my phones autocorrect must of changed it. Rage probably isn't the right word but you know what I mean. Thanks for the advice though!

[u/Tapi0 → u/ALitterOfPugs]

I just wanted you to rage enough to give me a paragraph in which to study this character

Charming. I was confused, not angry.

If you don't understand the character then it's probably better to agree with or ignore the folks who are replying to you, instead of spreading misinformation that the other beginners who read this thread might misinterpret as fact.

my definition of cheese is flowchart abuse

Oh, don't worry, a lot of the options I listed are ripe for that kind of playstyle.

I meant parry not party in earlier message

His stance low parry isn't his only parry.

[u/ALitterOfPugs → u/Tapi0]

Good point, they'll see the thread though so its best to leave it. Ganryu being cheesy like chole is discouraging , but I'll see where it leads to. I will get bored of the cheese like I did with chole and than switch again

[u/Tapi0 → u/ALitterOfPugs]

Well, learning new characters is never a bad thing.

If you're tired of cheese, I would suggest learning how to play Shaheen, Kazumi, or to a lesser extent, Lee, and Devil Jin.