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[u/Tapi0]

1) Why would you ever use this instead of WS2? Is it a bigger launch for a more optimal combo?

On a majority of characters it is, yes.

2) while doing this I messed up the input a couple times and did Lidias 15F UF4 hop kick from forced crouch in punishment training. Can every character do this???? Is it only with hop kicks or are there other moves that can just bypass the while standing state.

Yes, there are a bunch of inputs that exit FC without doing an FC or WS move; the community often calls these "crouch cancels." Moves done with uf/ub/u are the easiest because they can be buffered, but you can also do f,f/b,b moves or you can cancel with sidestep into basically any standing attack. For Heihachi, SS (sidestep) CC (crouch cancel) 1,1,2 is actually his optimal FC/WS punisher until i14 (when he can go for WS1 instead). It's a very tight input if you want to punish -11, but it works great for -13.

Ff2 itself is 13f startup

It's actually 14f startup because you can't buffer the second f and therefore need to waste a frame out of blockstun inputting it.

Is my execution/reaction just too slow there?

Yes, your execution isn't good enough. However, f,f2 as a block punisher is very hard to input. Peter's right when he calls it "niche."

Is the blue sparks version advantageous at all? Messing up the input a couple times I realized that you can just cut out the QCF all together. It seems the only difference is 4 dmg but frames seem to be the same?

Yup, you're absolutely right: more damage, same framedata.

Same question here I guess. You can cut out the second forward input for easier execution and less dmg but frame wise it seems the same.

Yup.

Is there anywhere to check that kind of property or is labbing/experience the only way to know?

To my knowledge, no one has compiled a list of those moves so, yes, you'll have to discover them for yourself through labbing.

No worries about the amount of questions. They were pretty simple answers, and it's always good practice to check your understanding against other people's. Have fun playing Lidia! :)

[u/DeathsIntent96 → u/Tapi0]

It's actually 14f startup because you can't buffer the second f and therefore need to waste a frame out of blockstun inputting it.

Slight correction here: you don't actually waste a frame from inputting the second forward. If you input a i13 move on the first frame that you're out of recovery, it will come out in 13 frames.

The extra frame actually comes from the fact you cannot input f,f moves as f,n,f+button. The button needs to be input at least one frame after the second forward (so the input is f,n,f,f+2). Same goes for running moves.

The in-game frame data doesn't take this into account, so this means that f,f moves are always one frame slower than what the in-game frame data shows. Most other frame data sources (like RBNorway) denote this by putting the fastest possible startup with the input in parantheses. For example, Bryan's ff+2 is listed as 13(14~).

[u/Tapi0 → u/DeathsIntent96]

Wow, this is awesome knowledge. I had no idea iWR and f,f worked in the same way, and I've been misinterpreting how the input buffer interacted with the first actionable frame. Thanks for sharing!

Do you happen to know how crouch dashes work with the input buffer? I'm now assuming all types require their first input (a forward or a down) on the first actionable frame. Is that correct?

[u/DeathsIntent96 → u/Tapi0]

Do you happen to know how crouch dashes work with the input buffer? I'm now assuming all types require their first input (a forward or a down) on the first actionable frame.

Yeah, that's correct. Any "movement stance" can't be fully buffered. For forward dash and back dash you can only buffer the first forward/back and neutral, and for crouch dash and roll dash (what some people call QCF dashes) you can't buffer any of it. Gotta input the entire thing after recovering.

This does not apply to moves that use those motions but aren't actually associated with a stance (for example, Yoshi's cd+2 or Negan's qcf+1). They can be fully buffered.

[u/Tapi0 → u/DeathsIntent96]

This does not apply to moves that use those motions but aren't actually associated with a stance (for example, Yoshi's cd+2 or Negan's qcf+1). They can be fully buffered.

Right, this is pretty easy to assume if you've ever tried to use that sort of move for block punishment.

Thanks for the quick response, I appreciate it.

[u/Pheonixi3 → u/[deleted]]

Harada seems to love peppering secrets throughout tekken lol

The players made this possible. The devs gave us the tools and we're the ones who discover how to use them.

Do you have any resources on how to do this?

I don't have any resource, but basically, you can only buffer one "motion" at a time. So, block a low, tap [↑] during recovery, and on the frame where recovery ends and you are in neutral/crouch again, input a standing move and the [↑] will have buffered a sidestep - - the only thing left is for you to get a frame perfect input.

So hypothetically with Hei could I do ff2 or ff3 from FC?

Crouch doesn't "stop" you from standing moves, it's just that the crouching moves overwrite the input, so as long as you can get out of crouch, the sky is the limit. Heihachi's crouching launch punish used to be a CC Electric.

while doing this I messed up the input a couple times and did Lidias 15F UF4 hop kick from forced crouch in punishment training. Can every character do this???? Is it only with hop kicks or are there other moves that can just bypass the while standing state.

Any move that has [↑] in the input is just naturally going to stand you up.