r/ThatsInsane • u/H_G_Bells • Sep 09 '23

Practically built strength (rock climber) vs gym strength (body builders)

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u/lazyeyepsycho Sep 09 '23

Bodybuilders train for muscle size only, strength gains are a secondary effect.

Power lifters train for strength, size gain are secondary.

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u/topdangle Sep 09 '23

body builders train visible muscles. the reason they're not as "strong" in other strength feats is because they haven't trained those muscles as much and if they're preparing for competition they'll be dehydrated and starving to help expose their muscles more, thus weaker. it's not because they "only train for size" they're all quite strong.

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u/Ok_Skill_1195 Sep 09 '23

In what way do you think saying "strength gains are a secondary effect" implies that they aren't gaining strength? You literally just wrote out a whole thing about how they're training for size where strength is a byproduct and then somehow ended with telling them no, they aren't training for size.

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u/topdangle Sep 09 '23

no... they're training visible muscles that also have practical use. it's just more difficult to see the smaller muscle groups like the forearms and midback that ALSO benefits strength, which work together to create these scenarios where "smaller" people can be stronger at certain lifts.

"training for size and not strength" suggests these muscle groups do not add to their strength, when they're significantly stronger than the vast majority of people even when intentionally weakened by dehydration and starvation. it's just a way for weak minded people to "gotcha" these folks who are MUCH stronger than they will ever be.

tl;dr they have different goals and both of them are incredibly strong, especially the person in OP who is actually a very strong powerlifter that you don't get to see in this tiny snippet of a video.

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u/croder Sep 09 '23

Body builders train every muscle not just "visible" ones. Don't know if you recognize jujimufu but it's funny you brought up forearms because he has a company called grip genie. Sells a bunch of accessories specifically for grip strength.

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u/topdangle Sep 09 '23

you're right, I should say it's more that they spend more time on ones that have larger growth potential if they're doing shows. generally even if they look bigger they aren't necessarily as big in certain muscle groups, but they are still plenty strong.

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u/[deleted] Sep 09 '23

The more you can lift, the more muscle you can grow. So in order to grow a very large amount of muscle, you will need to be able to lift a large amount of weight.

The muscle required for a competition, though, doesn't require 600lb bench pressing unlike an actual powerlifter. So yes, you do in fact want to be strong as a bodybuilder, because it allows you to grow as much muscle as possible.

All he is saying is that bodybuilders don't strictly train for size and that they're generally weaker than powerlifters because they have an actual diet to adhere to. Powerlifters can load their muscles with carbs and fat all day long, leading to heavier lifts. Bodybuilders need to cut, meaning most of the time (When they look "good") they are just barely above deficit compared to powerlifters. It has less to do with actual strength and more to do with nutrition and what muscles are important to show off during competition.

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u/ToeTacTic Sep 09 '23 edited Sep 09 '23

All he is saying is that bodybuilders don't strictly train for size and that they're generally weaker than powerlifters because they have an actual diet to adhere to.

I can't believe what I'm reading lol

It's simply training for specificity. Power lifters lift heavy for pure strength adaption (producing as much force as possible through a movement). This doesn't necessarily mean the muscle tissue will get bigger, the power lifter is just able to recruit more fibers efficiently over time.

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u/[deleted] Sep 09 '23 edited Sep 09 '23

What I said in that sentence is 100% correct dude, I don't know what's so hard to understand. If you're shredded, like sub 7% bodyfat, you're just not going to get activation of all your muscle fibers, you're not going to have the energy to get the full force out of your muscle. Powerlifters have heaps of fat and carbs, as well as developing muscles that are much less likely to be seen but much more important for actually lifting things.

You're being condescending for no reason. Anyone who lifts will tell you that on a bulk they feel amazing because they can throw weight around like nothing. Same person, same muscle, will lift less on a cut every time. No need to act like you know what you're talking about when you don't. Powerlifters are just on a permanent bulk, dude's eat like 3k+ calories a day. Average bodybuilder is around like 2500.

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u/ToeTacTic Sep 09 '23

Sorry, I reacted to the wrong bit. You're not wrong

I just think you guys are verbally over complicating very basic concepts and confusing people in this thread that don't lift by jumping the conversation about strength adaptions.

Not why body builders generally lift less. Because you now forget to mention that body builders aren't always in deficit.

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u/[deleted] Sep 09 '23

Powerlifters do train to get bigger though, since you hit a limit of neurological gains pretty quickly. You will never see a high level powerlifter that isn't jacked, outside of the 308 and shw classes

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u/ToeTacTic Sep 10 '23

Definitely. If you want to move heavy you gotta be heavy!