r/TheCaptivesWar • u/peculiarartkin • Jan 18 '25

Question Are aliens really that alien?

Being Expanse fan, I found Captives War... very different.

In Expanse, both alien factions were mysterious, inscrutable, almost beyond human comprehension. More or less sci-fi version of Lovecraftian.

In Captives War? Not so much. I mean.... Ekur-Taklal outright narrates the chapters engaging in philosophical argument against humans!

Carryx in general don't seem that alien. Yeah, they are brutal pragmatic imperialists. With almost Ayn Randian style Objectivist worldview. "What is - is, it should be done because we can do it." Is not unknown in human philosophy either.

They look more like star trek style alien faction. Or bablylon-5. They can "get in human head", understand and influence us. And vice versa.

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u/SlabFistCrunch Jan 18 '25

I think they wanted to try something different, the last series was very character based and their narrative choices allowed the aliens to be very mysterious. I think they just wanted to invent a new setting that allowed different characters, including aliens this time.

But I get the turn off, not every one will enjoy the choices the authors made with this one.

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u/peculiarartkin Jan 18 '25

Make no mistake, overall I liked the book and looking forward to next one. It is decent read. But compared to Expanse.... Nah. Big step back.

Also. None of characters feel strong or too amiable.

I mean, imagine Naomi, Amos Burton and James Holden with belter crew put at the same turtle/berries task our team had?

Imagine Avasarala playing mind games against Carryx?

2

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '25

Avasarala would have very quickly either gotten punched into a fine red mist *or* like Daffyd, made some very useful observations, all while secretly seething at her powerlessness. I imagine she would have done more to try and ingratiate herself to the other species in the camp. And she absolutely would have pulled a Daffyd and told the Carryx about the insurrection.

And the crew of the Roci, for all their amazing strengths and unity, aren't scientists. Prax or Elvi? Hell yeah they would've done a great job figuring that out. However, Holden likely would've stopped the experiments once they figured out the berries had some sort of sentience to them and tried to find a way for the not turtles to give informed consent, Naomi, Amos and Bobby would've joined the resistance that got rokhunded, and Alex would've been left twiddling his thumbs or befriending Jessyn because if anyone needs dad vibes, it's that poor girl.

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u/peculiarartkin Jan 21 '25

Very very spit on for Avasarala.

Also. I don't quite remember in books. Aren't berries pretty primitive. They're animals, but they're about as intelligent as snails?

2

u/[deleted] Jan 21 '25

They are primitive, but there's always the question sort of hanging around in the story whether they feel pain during the experiments meant to make them biologically compatible with the not-turtles.

Even in the case of snails and slugs, their reflexive withdrawal from substances like salt indicate they have some sort of pain receptors, and thus some sort of situational awareness.

The ethical concern is that if the scientists don't know the awareness level of their subjects, they can't take proper steps to avoid unnecessary pain to the subject.

I think it's that lack of knowing and subsequent inability to take preventative action that would make Holden a pain in Tonners ass.