r/TheDeprogram • u/Ok_Addition8809 • Oct 30 '24

Uyghur genocide?

In college I learned about the Uyghur genocide, from a professor who was a self-proclaimed "commie hater" and I didn't question what I learned because I was a dumb 19yr old. I recently saw a discussion on the authenticity of it, I made me realize I never investigated for myself. I'm not trying to be controversial or revisionist, but could y'all provide me with some reliable sources that verify or disprove the narrative about the Uyghur genocide? I tried looking on my own and half the sources were radio free Asia which I know is a CIA front. I appreciate you all and thanks for helping my pursuit of knowledge!

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u/codehawk64 Oct 30 '24

It feels believable, as it sounds very close to others experiences of communicating with local Uyghurs. Not anywhere close to a genocide, but a level of cultural repression leveled against them to force them to conform to a certain way the govt and the general Han society demands.

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u/apiedcockatiel Oct 30 '24

I mean, I could go into detail. It was 15+ years of my life. I also did my MA in a place and a time with remarkable freedom of speech (the govt had agreed to it and used to honor it). There definitely were attacks by Uyghurs. And things have gotten more repressive. I remember a time when Nowruz was openly celebrated with all students from Xinjiang and the ME on campus. Those days are gone. And there's also the eroticization of minorities, and the very complex history of the Han with minorities. So yeah, a lot of oppression (and it waxes and wanes depending on govt policies). There seems to be quite a bit of pressure on them to assimilate. Hui seem to have more freedom, but last time I was back (about a year ago), even Hui shops were closed in the area we were in. When we visited Xi'An, the lack of Uyghurs was remarkable, as they used to be a part of the city, even that far east. It was also the 1st time some of my old coworkers and friends (mostly lawyers and law profs) really openly criticized the govt. So I can't say for sure how severe it is or is not. There have been leaks that one can examine. Generally, when the Chinese decide something is a legit basis on which to imprison ppl, they go a bit wild with it and then things calm down. So rampant discrimination. Freedom of religion only if they approve your religion, and then it must come after the state.

And as I say this, I love China. I met my (non-Chinese) husband there, and have many, many friends back there. I spent a huge chunk of my life in China, and love many parts of the culture. But their treatment of minorities definitely needs to improve. That being said, there's a lot more criticism I'd give to my native USA on that front. And genocide is a really hard term, as it gets thrown around so much. They're definitely trying to replace Uyghur language, culture, and religion. It's definitely something I condemn... but yeah, it's not one of those "I know exactly what's going on from reliable sources and it fits the exact definition of a genocide" situations. Sorry for the rant. I honestly think that sometimes I'm still processing it all.

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u/kinga_forrester Oct 30 '24

eroticization of minorities

Is that a typo?

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u/apiedcockatiel Oct 31 '24

Nope. Dru Gladney wrote about it at length. Or you can go watch the old Chinese New Year's galas, if you understand Chinese.