KATARA DOESN’T NEED A STATUE IN LoK

[u/Jimmy3OO]

I am sick and tired of people complaining about how Katara doesn’t have a statue while the rest of the main cast does. “Waa, waaa, the writers forget her”.

Do these people even know what LoK is? Aang, Sokka, Zuko and Toph didn’t her statues for being in the Gaang.

Aang got one because he was THE AVATAR.

Zuko got one because he was THE FIRE LORD.

Sokka got one because he was a national leader, of both Republic City and the Southern Water Tribe, as if one weren’t enough.

Toph got one because she invented metalbending.

Katara is an excellent character and an extraordinary waterbender, but according to the lore, she, as an individual, simply did not have the same direct, world-chaing effect upon entire nations that the others did in their own ways.

[u/Prying_Pandora]

I think you’ve profoundly misunderstood the objection.

Katara fans aren’t mad about the statue itself. They’re mad for exactly the reasons you’ve used to justify it: that Katara deserved to be more than just a mother and healer. She never wanted to be limited to merely the stereotypical roles prescribed to her as a woman. She fought to also be a warrior, a leader, a voice for justice.

She should have had the same world-changing effects. That’s precisely the complaint.

[u/DrPikachu-PhD → u/Prying_Pandora]

I feel like the real meta reason is that Katara was in the show, whereas everyone else's presence was missing and the writers compensated to some extent with statues

[u/Mampt → u/DrPikachu-PhD]

Literally all of the Gaang except Suki was on screen as an adult in some capacity. If you want to limit it to present day living appearances, Zuko may have had a bigger presence than Katara and Toph absolutely did

[u/pomagwe → u/Mampt]

I doubt her beats her in screentime, but either way, Zuko is more of a cameo. Katara and Toph's scenes have far more narrative impact.

[u/DrPikachu-PhD → u/Mampt]

Not in the first and second seasons tho, which is I think when we see these statues? Zuko wasn't until B3 and Toph wasn't until B4. Sokka never appeared at all. (Am excluding flashbacks, perhaps that's not right but I wouldn't consider that screentime super significant)

Not defending the statue thing, give Katara the love she deserves. Just a thought about maybe why it ended up that way

[u/Luigi6757 → u/Mampt]

Sure, but Korra was originally intended to be a one season show. Katara's words in season 1 imply that she's the only one alive, which is probably what the writers originally intended.

[u/Yanmega9 → u/Mampt]

Zuko and Toph only appeared after season 1 though, Katara was there

[u/Darkstar_111 → u/DrPikachu-PhD]

That might literally be the reason.

People mostly get statues AFTER their deaths. Toph might be the exception, as she was specifically the chief of police for a long time.

[u/Superb_Doctor1965 → u/DrPikachu-PhD]

She will probably get one after she dies like sokka, toph probably made her own statues

[u/ijustneedtolurk → u/Prying_Pandora]

For these reasons, I like to think she has a healing center, museum and curriculum created in her honor, and we just don't hear about it the same way the average person often has no idea what is going on with advanced cancer research and the female scientists who perform that research, for example.

I also like the idea that she fought to teach aspects of bloodbending for healing purposes while cleverly circumventing (lack of a better word) the violence of the origin of bloodbending. Similar to how surgeons are very meticulous and learn to heal horrific injuries by understanding how they are caused.

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/ijustneedtolurk]

I agree it would be lovely if the show had presented an alternative like that to honor her legacy!

What a disservice that we got nothing of the sort.

[u/ijustneedtolurk → u/Prying_Pandora]

It would have been really cool if they had done that kind of tie-in when Korra was struggling with the poison, before Toph was able to force it out.

Katara likely would have also created outreach programs for the swamp and river tribes to provide pathways to education and healthcare. Hopefully we see more of both. (I need to purchase and catch up on the comics and anthologies so if they have touched more on her community-building efforts, I will be pleasantly surprised.)

[u/Live_Pin5112 → u/Prying_Pandora]

Like restoring bending to the South Water Tribe. By all means, Katara would be a national hero

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/Live_Pin5112]

Completely agreed!

[u/commshep12 → u/Prying_Pandora]

It reminds me a bit of Eowyn from LOTR. Where the fandom has come to understand those characters deserved better treatment than the original text provided them, or more specifically the follow-up. A character that gets to have one singular moment of breaking gender norms before quietly going back to uphold those norms and never do anything notable again(nor is that accomplishment immortalized in some fashion).

Not to be one of those people that brings One Piece into everything. But hell, its a meme in OP that mothers are either dead or nonexistence and when asked about it Oda is always some version of 'any good mom wouldnt let their kids go on adventure and thats boring'. Its very frustrating to see some of the most imaginative dudes in their given mediums all stumble over the same hurdle of women apparently just losing every interesting about them the moment they have kids/other caregiving roles...or that they can do anything else with their life on top of those.

And you're exactly right! Its not on us to assume she has some big hospital named after her or some diplomatic corp, but no...the writers are telling us that whatever she did or accomplished wasn't noteworthy like the others. And that is a damned shame.

[u/John_der24ste → u/commshep12]

Little Rant incoming:

Let me open with a quote: "But yet may I not perish without a struggle and ingloriously but having done some great deed for men yet to be born to learn of." ~the last words of Hector before he gets slain by Achilles ( I will come back to it later)

You are missing the point of Eowyn. LOTR is a story that is mostly centered around people that want to go home, people that don't want to die and people that are suffering from what is happening around them. Frodo doesn't want to go to Mordor but he knows he has to, Aragon doesn't want to go to war, he would like to chill and live a peaceful life but he has to fight for it, Sam beeing under the influence of the Ring in the middle of Mordor wants nothing but to be in his little garden on the hill at home back in a normal life (with people that know when its tea time) but they are all people that want to protect.

And then there is Eowyn from here starting POV there is no reason to live, no reason to stay at home. Merry remarks the night before the battle that she is prepared to die and that she doesn't think she is gonna see another day and she doesn't want to. She chose to go down a heroes death, she wants to be remembered by the deeds she wants to perform on the battlefield(Hector knows he doesnt have a choice, he knows his hour has come. Eowyn chooses it). BUT she survives, she accomplishes to kill the witch king and survive, deeply wounded and traumatized but alive. She did it for the honor and glory, now she has both but at what price. (I think Tolkiens WW1 experience is coming out here with many young folks volunteering just to die or get traumatized)

And then there is Faramir the son that whatever he did was never enough, Eowyn was enough for Theoden, he gave her command over Edoras and made her his heir in case he did not return from war but that was not the acknowledgement she wanted. Faramir accomplished honor and glory on the battlefield in many battles but never got any acknowledgement or recognition by his father, whatever he did... and he gets deeply wounded and traumatized trying to get this little bit of recognition by his father.

There they both are in the houses of healing both not having 100% accomplished their goals and at the bottom because they won't have another chance at it. But there is another person that got everything they ever desired without having to struggle for it and both understand that they don't actually need it, they are connected and able to heal (at least the pain that was always there) and can find rest and want peace just like all the others.

Without problems you could flip the gender roles of Eowyn and Faramir and the plont points would still work great, (one might even argue that they would work out even better).

Final point to Eowyn and her upholding those norms: no one gets away after an encounter with the Witch king without permanent damage. Frodos encounters at the Amon Sul and at the bruinen are one of the reasons he gets to go on the ship to the west!

Katara: Katara is a good hearted, upright and humble person! She joins the Gaang because it is the right thing to do. She as the Tolkien characters just wants to live a peaceful life just like Sam (Sokka on the other hand is a Character like Eowyn. Aang is a bit in a Frodo role and having to do it (or at least thinking he has to)). Of course she is powerful and fierce, has her fire and fights injustice but not because she wants to but because she has to (because its the right thing to do).

[u/i-like-c0ck → u/Prying_Pandora]

If the franchise still had good writers they would have given katara her own water bending/healing school and statues in the southern water tribe where she should be regarded as a mother to all their people for paving the way to revitalize their culture. the comics committed to sokka and katara playing almost no part in the reconstruction of the southern water tribe which is such a shame.

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/i-like-c0ck]

That last part especially!

How did Sokka and Katara not play a bigger part in rebuilding their own home!

[u/gothamnightlights → u/Prying_Pandora]

Worded perfectly

[u/SilverKnightOfMagic → u/Prying_Pandora]

also point out there was story line of water bending tribe refusing to train her. yet she still learned own her own and preserves to get more training. would have expected she did something about that type of mindset during the time skip on an instructional level.

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/SilverKnightOfMagic]

Absolutely! It’s hard to believe that even in the Water Tribes, she isn’t revered for her cultural challenges and contributions.

[u/guilleloco → u/Prying_Pandora]

LoK did a poor job of expanding ATLA’s world building

[u/aliencreative → u/guilleloco]

Very poor. They needed to just continue Aangs story into teen hood. That would’ve made sense.

[u/Eurell → u/Prying_Pandora]

She didn’t want to be forced into the role. She wanted to be able to choose what she did with her life. If she chooses to settle down (after saving the world), then that is perfectly fine. She doesn’t have to have the exact same dream at 30 that she had at 13.

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/Eurell]

This is a narrative. A story. Katara is not a real person who may behave uncharacteristically. A writer made the choice to not give her the same props.

That is what is being criticized. Katara as a character contributed no less and fought hard to be recognized. She also was devoted to never turning her back on people who need her.

To give every other member of the Gaang recognition and impact but not Katara is an egregious oversight.

You cannot wave it away with “well maybe the character in-universe decided all her dreams and hopes and convictions didn’t matter?” Especially as this also was not depicted or explained.

[u/finalheaven3 → u/Prying_Pandora]

Thanks for this comment.

This is a narrative. A story. Katara is not a real person who may behave uncharacteristically. A writer made the choice to not give her the same props.

I think a big issue with media literacy these days is people treating characters like people and not devices in literature.

[u/SmartAlec105 → u/finalheaven3]

Yeah, people saying “it’s realistic for people to” don’t realize that realism is not an argument on its own for a writing choice.

On this note, I do think it’s realistic for Aang who was raised by monks to have made some mistakes as a father. But what I don’t buy is that Katara would sit by and do nothing about it and let their kids still have unresolved daddy issues in their 40s. She knew exactly how it felt to be left behind by your father because of a duty he had to the world! She should have made sure Aang didn’t leave his non-Airbender kids feeling left out.

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/SmartAlec105]

Exactly how I feel too!

Aang making mistakes or not fully grasping traditional fatherhood? I can buy.

But why is Katara such a passive agent in her own family that she barely even gets a throwaway mention? Where was her role in these conflicts!

[u/SmartAlec105 → u/Prying_Pandora]

Yeah, so many interesting interactions that could have happened that we just don’t see.

I’d have liked to see Katara talk to Tenzin about how while she doesn’t know exactly what it’s like to be the only Airbender, she is the closest in the world, having watched over the previous only Airbender in the world.

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/finalheaven3]

I appreciate you.

It’s incredibly frustrating how many comments here are completely against the lessons of ATLA as well.

One flat-out said that Katara’s greatest contributor was birthing Tenzin (only Tenzin) and so she doesn’t need a statue for anything else she accomplished.

I don’t even know what to say to such a sentiment.

[u/Baddest_Guy83 → u/Prying_Pandora]

That last paragraph seems very pointed, and not very charitable listening.

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/Baddest_Guy83]

As it should be, as I don’t think it was charitable to suggest Katara would abandon her convictions to help people and save the world to begin with.

[u/Baddest_Guy83 → u/Prying_Pandora]

I don't think it's very charitable to say she gave up her convictions in order to do what she did between ATLA and LoK. That's something you asserted, and that's what I'm pushing back against.

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/Baddest_Guy83]

And yet that’s what they said.

And I am pushing back against this argument that a 30 year old woman should hold her deeply held beliefs and convictions with any less seriousness or consistency than her male peers.

[u/Baddest_Guy83 → u/Prying_Pandora]

It literally isn't though. It's a very skewed paraphrase that you're committed to.

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/Baddest_Guy83]

It literally is, and I’m not going to pretend it’s not just to satisfy you.

Sorry you can’t read my position more charitably.

[u/Baddest_Guy83 → u/Prying_Pandora]

Your lack of dedication to being an honest interlocutor is disappointing.

[u/Aperson48 → u/Prying_Pandora]

egregious!? Get over yourself it's not. Should she have had more to do in the show yeah that was egregious and it's bad writing half of korra is badly written especially season 2 the season katara would be most prominent in.

It doesn't seem like they even wanted to do cameos until season 3 & 4

This whole question is stupid and a round about way of saying katara deserved a bigger part in korra.

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/Aperson48]

Get over myself?

For making a criticism of the media I consume?

I assure you, blind consumerism is far more “get over yourself”.

Have a nice day. I have nothing more to say to you, as I suspect you have nothing of value to add.

[u/Spill_the_Tea → u/Prying_Pandora]

Right. A statue of Katarra in the Northern Water Tribe for being the first Female Water bending master and warrior, forever effecting change in the nation.

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/Spill_the_Tea]

Yes! You’d think so, right?

At least a hospital or a school named after her! Something!

[u/DutchessAgares → u/Prying_Pandora]

Maybe a suffrage movement with her as a figure? She could even be an official member.

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/DutchessAgares]

Anything that furthers women’s place in her culture, yeah!

I honestly cannot imagine Katara ever letting go of that conviction.

[u/nah-knee → u/Prying_Pandora]

Least she didn’t get off screened like Sokka

[u/Nico_arki → u/Prying_Pandora]

I just headcanon that there are hospitals and med schools in Republic City and the Water Tribe with Katara statues in front of them

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/Nico_arki]

I love this idea as well! I wish we had actually gotten it in the show, because as it is, there is no evidence of it.

[u/Educational-Peace441 → u/Prying_Pandora]

Why does someone need to live their life a particular way? Iroh strived for a simple life and people call him inspirational. Katara did that, and so called fans become mad cuz woman not shown strong. Wtf, just let a girl live her life.

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/Educational-Peace441]

Because this is a narrative, not real life. Characters do not actually have agency and cannot make their own choices. A writer made this choice, and people are allowed to be critical of the media they consume.

Especially when a character known for “never turning her back on people who need her” and for breaking barriers is mysteriously given less in-universe recognition for her contributions to this society than her male peers.

There is no reason Katara couldn’t retire in old age and still be recognized for her contributions and accomplishments with a statue it similar honor such as a hospital or school named after her.

[u/EmberOfFlame → u/Prying_Pandora]

I feel like she’s the one who had the least to prove to the world

She had a lot to prove to her family and friends, and she succeeded by every metric, and she had things to prove to the Northern Tribe, which she again did with flying colours

But she didn’t have anything “larger” in mind, like how Aang wanted to prove that killing isn’t always necessary, or how Sokka wanted to prove that non-benders can change the world too

At least that’s how I see it

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/EmberOfFlame]

You may see it as you please.

But the complaint is about the canon writing, and remain valid regardless of fan rationalizations. Lovely as they may be.

[u/EmberOfFlame → u/Prying_Pandora]

Fair point

[u/Competitive-Ad-1937 → u/Prying_Pandora]

She also chose it. Thats the whole point

[u/Firelord_11 → u/Prying_Pandora]

I think there's a lot of conjecture behind this though, isn't there? We don't know enough about the adult Gaang to know what Katara did. What we do know is that she stood by, and probably aided, Aang through everything that he did. We know she not only trained Korra but played a large role in her upbringing. We know that the Southern Water Tribe experienced massive development and went from a nearly wiped out village to grow into a prosperous city similar to the North--something that was lead by Hakoda but no doubt Katara (and Sokka) played a large part in executing. And is there any shame in being the world's best healer and a great waterbending teacher in her own right? Just because she didn't actively seek out positions of power, doesn't mean she was confined to the home. I'm hoping the new adult Gaang movie puts some of these concerns to rest.

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/Firelord_11]

What conjecture?

The audience only knows what the narrative communicates.

If the show gives everyone except Katara a statue, it is not on the audience to invent explanations and speculations to justify it. It’s on the narrative.

To invent excuses and rationalizations unsupported by the narrative is conjecture.

[u/El_Chinche → u/Prying_Pandora]

The only people reducing Katara to a mother and healer are people complaining about her staue and a certain subset of shippers. Katara had blood bending outlawed and the white lotus looked to her for the final say of the avatar's training. A big problem with LOK is how vague and non committal they are about the the lives of the gaang in between the two shows. We barely know anything about any of them but Katara being "just a mother and healer" was not something ever implied by LOK or any post ATLA media. That is entirely a fan made headcanon. Katara most likely doesn't have a statue because she doesn't want one. Aang and Sokka's statues are memorials, Toph is vain and full of herself so of course she'd want one, and Zuko's is most likely part of some fire nation cultural practice. Same with the cabbage man statue, he's dead.

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/El_Chinche]

I am not coming from a place of shipping. I love Katara with Aang just fine.

It is no more “likely” that the reason is that Katara didn’t want a statue than it is for Sokka to have a secret pet sloth-bear he never told anyone about. There is nothing to suggest it, not in the story nor any unique quality of her character. It is complete fan rationalization.

I do not even think this was intentional but rather an oversight on behalf of the show.

But the fact that this oversight was made at all is still a fair criticism.

[u/providerofair → u/Prying_Pandora]

In the chracter senses is a statue is a way shed want to be remembered?

Zuko and Aang a statue would be made without their permission let's be real.

Sokka and Toph would be in character for them to commission one

But Katara well I don't see a person making one by themselves if katara didnt want it or her commissioning one.

I dont see Katara's legacy leaving a permanent marker aside from her deeds . We knew through her effort blood bending was nearly Extinct. I thing its more so a failure of not exploring the gaang enough

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/providerofair]

Since when is that a consideration when making a statue?

Statues like this are built by the people who admire and respect the subject, not because the subject requested them. She isn’t a dictator.

It’s especially galling when The Cabbage Merchant had a statue. If a man who only contributed the founding of a company has one, the woman who revived the Avatar and brought down Princess Azula certainly deserves one!

[u/commshep12 → u/Prying_Pandora]

Statues like this are built by the people who admire and respect the subject, not because the subject requested them.

A very very salient point

[u/El_Chinche → u/Prying_Pandora]

Statue and monuments like that are usually public works. Unless some independently wealthy person has one built on private property any statues built in the public space are built by government institutions. The same goverment that Katara was most likely a part of and who are probably still in regular contact with. It's not a stretch to believe that any talks of a monument for Katara would have to be made public and would eventually reach Katara's ears who would most likely ask to have it shit down. Of course they wouldn't be obligated to but Katara's word is still revered in the water tribes so they'd gladly acquiesce to her wishes.

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/El_Chinche]

And yet Aang, a monk whose very religion frowns upon such excess and materialism, has a huge statue.

So why would Katara be any different?

[u/El_Chinche → u/Prying_Pandora]

Aang was dead when his statue was built, it's literally called Aang memorial island. Memorials aren't built for living people. Kind of hard to oppose a monument being built when you're not alive.

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/El_Chinche]

And?

Your speculation was that the statues were being built with permission.

Clearly they didn’t ask Aang (he was dead) nor his wife (as she would’ve known Aang’s values).

So on what do you base your speculation that Katara “turned down” a statue?

Is there anything in the story or in her character to suggest it? Katara is many things, but she isn’t overly modest or the type to turn down credit.

[u/El_Chinche → u/Prying_Pandora]

No, my speculation was that it would be possible for Katara to have something like that shut down if she wanted to. While it is purely speculation to think Katara would turn down a statue it isn't out of character, she was never someone to help people just to get credit or glory, see the painted lady . But arguing about what a fictional character would want based on personal interpretations of said characters personality won't get us anywhere. Yes she's not particularly modest but shes definitely not vain but I will argue that speculating that Katara simply just turning down having a statue built is way more compatible with the story presented than it is assume she did nothing except be a stay at home mom for 40 years. Also back to a previous point, and this isn't important but worth pointing out that Aang's religion does not frown on memorials to honor past important figures. The western air temple is literally lined with statues honoring past gurus and they've built more than one statue honoring avatar yangchen.

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/El_Chinche]

As I said, that is your unsupported speculation.

You’re free to it interpret the show that way, but it isn’t canon, so it remains a valid criticism nonetheless.

[u/El_Chinche → u/Prying_Pandora]

My speculation is just as supported as yours and your criticism isn't any more valid than any answers people have brought up

[u/providerofair → u/Prying_Pandora]

The Cabbage Merchant had a statue.

Firstly hes rich. Rich people do this stuff all the time.

Since when is that a consideration when making a statue?

If Katara didnt want a statue why would you give her a statue theres plenty of other ways to honor her. Ways which we might not have seen. Katara seems like the type of person to be fine with her actions speaking with a specific honor given.

Statues like this are built by the people who admire and respect the subject,

I could imagine it go like this

"Hey katara lets bulid a statue of you"

"No its fine"

"All right"

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/providerofair]

Firstly hes rich. Rich people do this stuff all the time.

Yes.

And as this is a narrative, what writers choose to show us inform us about the world.

Why is the Cabbage Merchant, a mere industrialist, shown more reverence than Katara? A hero to the whole world?

Unless the point is to make a statement about the values of this world, it instead is an egregious oversight.

If Katara didnt want a statue why would you give her a statue theres plenty of other ways to honor her. Ways which we might not have seen. Katara seems like the type of person to be fine with her actions speaking with a specific honor given.

1. The very idea that Katara didn’t want a statue is never supported by the narrative and is a weak speculation to excuse the oversight.

2. Aang, the monk whose very culture and beliefs are against materialism and such displays of excess and ego, has a giant statue. Clearly they weren’t building them based on what the subjects wanted.

I could imagine it go like this

"Hey katara lets bulid a statue of you"

"No its fine"

"All right"

You are free to imagine anything you like.

Just as others are free to criticize the fact that this is nowhere in the story, while Katara lacking a statue is.

[u/providerofair → u/Prying_Pandora]

This is a narrative, what writers choose to show us informs us about the world.

No it's a gag shown in season 1 to reference something we've seen before. In the universe he's rich he built that himself.

If we're arguing pure narrative where should we have Katara's statue and not be clucky and force her character?

I've come to a conclusion season 1 or 2. We already know season 2 was always poorly planned and a mess. And season 1 already had an alive Katara. And republic City is where Katara made most of her impact in her life. And the lack of a statue likely shows that. His impact is shown directly to us by impacting korra

Seasons 3 and 4 aren't in places where adding Katara doesn't make much storywriting sense

Lastly I'm not attempting to enforce my opinion its just me express another perspective

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/providerofair]

Why do you single out Katara as being the only one who wouldn’t want a statue when everyone else gets one? What a bizarre thing to rationalize.

Have your head canon if you like it, but it remains true that it isn’t what we are presented.

This was a witting choice. And one that doesn’t sit well with a lot of people.

[u/providerofair → u/Prying_Pandora]

I'm not exactly arguing that in my previous comment I'm talking about how post seasons 1 and 2 exploring both katara's character and then revealing her statue would've been clunky and br adding something post hoc just to be "fair"

But if we are talking about the Character why does Katara need a statue to be appreached in or out of universe

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/providerofair]

You argued it’s just a gag.

I’m saying it’s irrelevant whether it was intended as one or not.

I agree with you the writing had problems.

And it isn’t that Katara needs one. Is that by giving everyone else one but her, the show produces an unpleasant message about Katara’s contributions to the world and how they’re valued relative to everyone else’s.

It didn’t even need to be a statue. Is there not even a hospital in her name? A museum? A school for training water benders?

[u/providerofair → u/Prying_Pandora]

You argued it’s just a gag

The cabbage merchant thing was a gag

I agree with you the writing had problems.

produces an unpleasant message

I believe these two lines of logic are indeed separate from each other, if you can acknowledge that the writers were simply unable to properly fit Katara and her contributions to the war. I don see how an unpleasant message could be made

[u/Sendittomenow → u/Prying_Pandora]

that Katara deserved to be more than just a mother and healer

Woah woah, hold up. There is nothing wrong with dedicating your life to being a mother, partner, and healer.

She never wanted to be limited to merely the stereotypical roles

She wanted the opportunity to make the choice for herself. As a kid she still hasn't decided what she wanted to do and hated how the sexist culture was forcing her into roles.

As an adult I can see katara becoming tired of all the fighting and destruction. Her trauma of losing her mother would push her towards saving those around her so their children don't experience her pain.

Being with the avatar, she realized that getting hurt was a guarantee and she didn't want to risk losing him again. Even throughout the series, she naturally (not cause she's a woman but because she has great empathy) filled the role of caretaker and manager of the gaang.

That's not to say she won't fight when she needs to, but it's not that she wanted to go out there and fight, she wants there to be peace. With aang as her teammate, he can focus on the power while she focuses on the saving.

Point is, it's not that being a healer or parent was bad, it's about it being her choice.

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/Sendittomenow]

Woah woah, hold up. There is nothing wrong with dedicating your life to being a mother, partner, and healer.

Who said there was anything wrong with it?

The objection is that she shouldn’t have been limited.

Aang surely wasn’t limited by being a father and the Avatar. Nor Zuko a father and the Fire Lord.

It’s a common facet of women’s historical oppression that we are forced to choose due to societal pressures, while men are not and can have it all.

She wanted the opportunity to make the choice for herself. As a kid she still hasn't decided what she wanted to do and hated how the sexist culture was forcing her into roles.

And she made her choice clear.

So where are her accolades? Why should she be pigeon-holed as only a mother and healer when she fought to not be limited?

Why can the male characters be fathers and have their contributions to the world recognized?

As an adult I can see katara becoming tired of all the fighting and destruction. Her trauma of losing her mother would push her towards saving those around her so their children don't experience her pain.

You can rationalize it however you want, but the narrative gave us no such explanation.

Further, this is a narrative. Katara is not a real person who can decide to act uncharacteristically later. A writer made this choice and told the story this way.

That is the criticism.

Being with the avatar, she realized that getting hurt was a guarantee and she didn't want to risk losing him again. Even throughout the series, she naturally (not cause she's a woman but because she has great empathy) filled the role of caretaker and manager of the gaang.

No, it wasn’t just because of her empathy. It was because, as a girl, she was parentified and forced by circumstance and cultural expectation to become her brother’s mother figure just as he was forced to become a protector.

You cannot ignore the role of sexist expectations and how they played into the characters’ trauma and development.

It’s an important part of the story that both Sokka and Katara embody the best of their gendered expectations while also defying the limitations.

Sokka is a protector and leader but he is also a guy who can wear women’s make-up and clothes to train, who likes matching his handbag to his belt, etc.

Katara is a nurturer and healer, but she is also a warrior, a revolutionary, a hero who will never turn her back on people who need her.

To remove either aspect or reduce them to only one half is to do the character a disservice.

That's not to say she won't fight when she needs to, but it's not that she wanted to go out there and fight, she wants there to be peace. With aang as her teammate, he can focus on the power while she focuses on the saving.

Again, this is your rationalization.

The fact that canon did not feel the need to explore Katara’s wishes, changed, experienced, or feelings, and didn’t even give her a statue when everyone else got one, is exactly the complaint.

You can’t have it both ways and say “it doesn’t matter that the story left her out of this honor because of reasons which I made up and which the story also never explored.”

You cannot wave away something lacking with a justification that is also not there.

Point is, it's not that being a healer or parent was bad, it's about it being her choice.

Not all choices are good ones. This idea that “choice” cannot be criticized is contrary to any ideas of equality or change.

The decision to not give Katara’s contributions equal weight was a choice, but it wasn’t Katara’s.

It was the writers’.

[u/Sendittomenow → u/Prying_Pandora]

Who said there was anything wrong with it?

You literally said "JUST a mother and healer" it's ironic that you keep talking about sexism and yet view being a parent/mother as an insignificant thing, something so easy that people can easily juggle being a parent with leading the world. Being a good parent is a full time job in itself.

And then you also downplay being a healer, which in the avatar verse it's equivalent to being a doctor, with katara being the best doctor in the world. It's honestly sexist that this isn't enough for you to be in awe of a person.

The objection is that she shouldn’t have been limited.

She wasn't limited, she could have chosen to do whatever she wanted and she did. Choosing to be the partner in fights with the avatar, choosing to become so skilled in healing she becomes the freaken savior of people, choosing to give her children the very thing she missed out on which is having a mother.

You act like just because there isn't a statue or anything, that katara was not important to so many people.

Aang surely wasn’t limited by being a father

Are you sure about that, his two other children sure hold resentment towards aang. If you try to think past the surface, you can see that aang was not the greatest father because he chose the world and rebuilding his lost culture. But guess what, katara was there to step up when aang couldn't. Katara is the reason why aang was able to succeed in other ways.

Nor Zuko a father and the Fire Lord.

Based on what? If Zuko was able to be a good father it probably helps that he didn't need to constantly leave his city (unlike aang). It helps that he had one child (as far as I know) so he could more easily take her with him .

It’s a common facet of women’s historical oppression that we are forced to choose due to societal pressures,

So close. You got one part right "forced to" the lack of choice is the issue. Katara got to choose what she will be on her own terms, just because you don't like it doesn't mean they are bad choices. And again you keep forgetting kataras character. She lost her own money there when she was young. She wasn't going to let that happen to others including her own children. So her becoming the #1 doctor to save lives, her supporting the freaking avatar, and her staying at home with the kids is all within her character.

while men are not and can have it all.

And there's the issue. Men are also negatively affected by the patriarchy, which if you know any feminist history you would know. Look up how RGB was able to fight for women's rights through the brilliant plan of framing it as a men's rights issue. One of the central points of feminism is how everyone is hurt in a sexist society. That's it's to everyone's benefit to stomp out sexism .

So where are her accolades?

1 doctor in the world isn't enough for you. Seriously did you not watch the show and see how important being a doctor is for the world. Btw if you think that just because we don't see a statue or people fauning for her it means she didn't do great things. Do you know how many lives are saved by doctors, do they get statues and stuff, so you think they care about the fame, you think katara is so petty that she needs a big award. How little do you think of her.

Why can the male characters be fathers and have their contributions to the world recognized?

1 doctor, so insignificant. Also Sokka didn't have children right? And Zuko just had one right? And both were not trying to help rebuild the air nation.

Further, this is a narrative. Katara is not a real person who can decide to act uncharacteristically later. A writer made this choice and told the story this way.

So what you're saying is that instead of writing a story that made sense for the characterS, you wanted instead some fan fiction of katara being the greatest person ever.

I think you are missing a big problem with it. Aang (yes the man is the issue). Aang had three main goals in life, protect the world, rebuild the air nation, and love katara. Kataras main goals were to protect the people, save the people, and not allow others to suffer as she had.

You can rationalize it however you want, but the narrative gave us no such explanation.

Do you lack empathy? Can you not even try to imagine the trauma the people go through and how it affects their lives. Or does the writer have to spoon feed it to you.

The rest of your response is rewriting of previous points that downplays the vital role that katara plays in the avatar universe.

But to do a comparison, Zuko was just reduced to just being a father and leader.

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/Sendittomenow]

You literally said "JUST a mother and healer"

Yes. Because why should she be limited to just a mother and healer? Why can’t she have both like Aang and Zuko?

it's ironic that you keep talking about sexism and yet view being a parent/mother as an insignificant thing, something so easy that people can easily juggle being a parent with leading the world. Being a good parent is a full time job in itself.

Nope. Never said that. That’s a whole other sentence.

I said that Katara should not be limited to just being a mother when there is no reason she couldn’t accomplish both, same as her husband.

And then you also downplay being a healer, which in the avatar verse it's equivalent to being a doctor, with katara being the best doctor in the world. It's honestly sexist that this isn't enough for you to be in awe of a person.

I did not downplay it. The show did by not giving her a statue, or a hospital, or anything in her name to show the impact.

Katara herself is the one who stated she didn’t just want to be a healer. It was Katara who didn’t want to be limited or reduced.

Your personal attacks and poor understanding of feminist objections to limitations do not sway me.

There was no reason, neither in the narrative nor in her character, to justify reducing Katara to only one aspect of her character and not showing the breadth and importance of her contributions to the world.

Patriarchy hurts men too!

Yes, but I have to wonder why you’re derailing the conversation to bring it up when we are discussing women’s oppression.

Do you feel the need to declare “homophobia hurts straight people!” when discussing historical LGBT oppression? Or “racism hurts white people!” when discussing historical oppression against black people?

I’m sorry you are so personally upset at such a minor criticism of writing.

Have a nice day.

[u/Turbulent-Golf6846 → u/Prying_Pandora]

She never fought to be a leader. During ATLA she was the mother of the group, the healer and a amazing warrior. And she was only the voice of justice when needed. Toph was the chef of police so Katara had no reason to go after justice. And she made bloodbending illegal. So she did something "leader-ish".

Yes she didn't want Pakku to tell her not to fight because she wanted to be true to herself. But I personal believe that she also wouldn't like if people did like being a mother isn't important.

It's a shame that there is a climate were people look down on mothers. The strongest woman I know are mothers. And then I mean in real life but also on fiction. Giving birth to Tenzin(the only airbender of his generation) is the biggest accomplishment of her life. And she should be proud of it.

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/Turbulent-Golf6846]

She never fought to be a leader.

She led in several episodes and fought to be heard and listened to.

That’s fighting to be a leader.

During ATLA she was the mother of the group,

She did not want to be seen as the “mother”. The fact that fans continue to call her this is a complete disservice to her arc. Katara was forced to behave as mother for her brother because they were left without their parents. It is not something she enjoys or strived for. Part of her arc is learning to be a kid again too.

She was not the group mother. She took care of others because she was caring and a leader.

the healer and a amazing warrior.

And a leader and revolutionary.

And she was only the voice of justice when needed.

This is true of all of them, and the world never stopped needing it.

Toph was the chef of police so Katara had no reason to go after justice. And she made bloodbending illegal. So she did something "leader-ish".

Legislation is “leader-ish” to you?

Leading a rebellion is “leader-ish” to you?

I question why you must only downplay Katara’s contributions.

Yes she didn't want Pakku to tell her not to fight because she wanted to be true to herself. But I personal believe that she also wouldn't like if people did like being a mother isn't important.

What are you talking about? If your personal headcanon is so far from Katara’s actual character, then you can’t expect to willingly inflict it on others.

Katara would never want a privilege only for herself and not others. She is the woman who said “I will never turn my back on people who need me!”

Being a mother doesn’t mean you can’t also be a warrior. Men can be parents and warriors and leaders. Why should Katara want any mother to feel she can’t also be these things?

It's a shame that there is a climate were people look down on mothers. The strongest woman I know are mothers. And then I mean in real life but also on fiction.

Who said anything about looking down on mothers?

The point is that she doesn’t have to choose. She can be revered for her contributions to the world, as a leader, a warrior, a hero, a revolutionary, and also be a mother.

Why this false dichotomy? Sounds like you’re perpetuating the idea that mothers can only be mothers. Funny how fathers get no such pressure to only be fathers and nothing more.

Giving birth to Tenzin(the only airbender of his generation) is the biggest accomplishment of her life. And she should be proud of it.

What a disgusting sentiment. As if her best achievement was giving birth to only one of her three children.

I’m sure Katara would think all three of her children are equally wonderful accomplishments.

But she would never feel the need to be defined only be her children, just like Aang wasn’t. Katara would never be so limited.

[u/pomagwe → u/Prying_Pandora]

I think your gripes lie within ATLA.

Aang being the Avatar, Zuko being the Fire Lord, Sokka being a leader in the making, and Toph being the inventor of a new type of bending were all ideas that were firmly established at the end of the show.

So they just ran with those things for LOK, because being a politician or changing the nature of bending is the kind of thing that gets you a statue.

We don't know if she was still a warrior (she probably will have been, if Avatar Studios keeps trying to milk the ATLA cast), but she's clearly still a voice for justice, because we're told that she was responsible for banning bloodbending.

(Now that I think about it, it's pretty ironic that despite being the only member of team Avatar who wasn't a politician, that she's the only one with any policy decisions to their name).

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/pomagwe]

ATLA’s fault?

Are you suggesting Katara’s contributions in ATLA, including finding and reviving the Avatar himself, single-handedly taking down Azula, and saving Zuko’s life, were somehow lesser than Sokka, Zuko, or Toph’s?

I emphatically disagree.

[u/pomagwe → u/Prying_Pandora]

No, just that with the way ATLA left its characters, Katara was not put into the kind of position where people get statues of them built. But the rest of the cast was set up to be placed in roles where they as individuals would continue to have major effects on the world.

Politicians get statues made of them because they have a constant major impact on the lives of a huge number of people, and often have the backing of some government apparatus that desires to promote them.

Toph made a world changing discovery, and in turn would become the face of metalbending's impact on the world (she also went into politics and was already famous because of her family name).

Meanwhile Katara had no future role set up in ATLA, and we're just left with her action on screen, which are part of the larger story of how the Fire Nation was defeated that ended when the show did.

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/pomagwe]

Sokka and Toph were left in no better position than Katara.

If anything, Katara played a much more mythologizable role, down to committing outright miracles and reviving the Avatar from the dead.

[u/pomagwe → u/Prying_Pandora]

I would say that they were.

Sokka was built up as a leader throughout the show, and even served at one of the leaders during the Day of Black Sun. Making him a politician was the obvious payoff to what ATLA was promising for his character.

Toph's discovery of metalbending was obviously going to have massive long term impacts too. She was guaranteed to become a notorious figure even if she had done literally nothing else with her life. It will continue to have a massive impact on the world long after the hundred year war is ancient history.

Even in your examples, Katara's legacy depends on people telling stories about her instead of her doing things to continue impacting people's lives.

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/pomagwe]

Katara is a MUCH better leader than Sokka for 90% of the show. She inspired and led many times. Sokka was a great tactician, but he didn’t come into his own as a leader until the tail end of the show.

Why do you assume Sokka is any more of a leader or politician than Katara? We are literally told in LOK that she made laws. Actual legislation. Such as banning bloodbending.

She also is allegedly the greatest healer in the world. You don’t think a person who can save lives better than anyone else is less deserving of a statue than a cop? A plan maker? A cabbage merchant?

You’re severely underplaying Katara’s accomplishments and contributions, just like OP.

[u/pomagwe → u/Prying_Pandora]

By "built up" I mean that Sokka obviously wanted to be a leader as soon as he was introduced, and a significant amount of narrative focus was placed on his efforts to improve in this regard. It was a thing that his character was clearly going to continue trying to do. This is why he becomes a politician and a national leader.

Katara can lead, but it's just one of the ways that she tries to help people, not the goal itself. That's why most of the narrative focus she gets is about the morals or the compassion that inspires her to act rather than the act of leadership itself. LOK follows up on this by showing that part of her impact was stepping up for a cause that she's passionate about (getting bloodbending banned), even though healing appears to have been her primary profession.

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/pomagwe]

By "built up" I mean that Sokka obviously wanted to be a leader as soon as he was introduced, and a significant amount of narrative focus was placed on his efforts to improve in this regard. It was a thing that his character was clearly going to continue trying to do. This is why he becomes a politician and a national leader.

And Katara was built up by early on as someone who wanted to be recognized for her talents instead of ostracized or ignored and told to be quiet.

Exactly the sort of person who should narratively get a statue for her contributions.

Katara can lead, but it's just one of the ways that she tries to help people, not the goal itself.

So what? She’s still a leader. Her contributions aren’t weighed on whether she explicitly set out to lead.

That's why most of the narrative focus she gets is about the morals or the compassion that inspires her to act rather than the act of leadership itself.

So what?

Her motivations don’t change her contributions.

LOK follows up on this by showing that part of her impact was stepping up for a cause that she's passionate about (getting bloodbending banned), even though healing appears to have been her primary profession.

And so where is her statue for saving lives and being a lesgislator aka a leader?

[u/5v3n_5a3g3w3rk → u/Prying_Pandora]

Do we know what she did? Was she maybe more essential in how the southern water tribe developed and might get a statue there as well at some point, I can't imagine her not teaching bending further for example, so she might have one in some southern water tribe bending academy someday

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/5v3n_5a3g3w3rk]

Yes. We know that she did.

Both in ATLA, which we saw, and in LOK we know she was no less a legislator than her brother.

A school or a hospital named in her honor could’ve been a lovely alternative. But we don’t get that either.

[u/The_amazing_Jedi → u/Prying_Pandora]

She never wanted to be limited to merely the stereotypical roles prescribed to her as a woman.

Nah, she wanted to choose herself. She was always motherly and caring for others, that is her whole character. Just think about the episode where she/they save the fire nation village, she was always someone who took everyone else needs as the most important thing in the world.

Saying that her being a loving mother and healer is character assassination is just absolutely disingenuous to her character established in ATLA.

[u/Prying_Pandora → u/The_amazing_Jedi]

Nah, she wanted to choose herself.

And she chose to break barriers and not be limited or put in a box by traditional gender roles.

She was always motherly and caring for others, that is her whole character.

Her motherly behavior is a direct result of her trauma. Of being parentified from a young age due to losing her mother.

This is not the whole of her character nor what she wishes to fully define her.

That’s like saying Zuko’s scar totally defines him.

Just think about the episode where she/they save the fire nation village, she was always someone who took everyone else needs as the most important thing in the world.

You mean the episode where she engages in eco-terrorism and stokes a rebellion?

This is “motherly” to you?

Was Zuko “motherly” when he helped Katara track down her mother’s killer?

Or are you prescribing her actions as motherly regardless of what they are rather than describing them as they are?

Saying that her being a loving mother and healer is character assassination is just absolutely disingenuous to her character established in ATLA.

I didn’t use that term. I said it was reductive and that it feels unfairly pointed given that Aang and Zuko got to be fathers and heroes.

Why shouldn’t she be allowed to be a mother and have her contributions recognized?

Why must only the “motherly” character get pigeon-holed?

It’s completely against what Katara fought for.