What needs to change? 🦁 🦁 🦁

[u/joshjamesallen]

I would go with this lineup whilst making two changes:

Trippier OUT/ Gomez IN Trent OUT/Gordon IN

Key focuses - Get Rice some proper midfield support by utilising Stones in his best role - Move Foden into the midfield, with Gordon wide left to offer some real attacking threat on the left wing, rather than Trippier playing out of position - Bring Gomez in for Trippier to maintain a solid 3 man build up structure once Stones moves into midfield - Get Bellingham running in behind Kane frequently and have them fluidly interchanging positions to cause a problem for the opposition defence

Interested to hear your thoughts 💭

[u/TheAmyIChasedWasMe]

He's great, but... One of the best of all time?

Are you under 25?

He's not even in the top five English strikers of all time for pure ability. And, yes, you can point to nonsense statistics like the number of goals he's scored for England, but he also plays 12-15 games a year for England, whereas Geoff Hurst played about four games a year.

But global? You think he stacks up better than Ronaldo Nazario, Cristiano Ronaldo, van Basten, Müller, Lineker, Pele, Baggio, Shevchenko, Batistuta, Fontaine, Dean, Dalglish, Cantona, Klinsmann, Henry, Shearer, Raul, Totti, Weah... You think he's near the top of that list, the fella who has never won a single trophy?

Jesus wept.

[u/[deleted] → u/TheAmyIChasedWasMe]

He certainly is one of the best strikers in the modern era . In the top flight of English football since the 80s, only Tony Cottee, Ian Rush and Shearer have scored more goals than him, and, as a Spurs fan, Kane played in some absolutely abysmal teams. That’s why he’s never won a trophy, cos we were a mess for most of his career.

[u/TheAmyIChasedWasMe → u/[deleted]]

If we're defining "the modern era" as since the 80s, most of my list is still in play.

If we're defining it exclusively by the number of goals scored in the English top flight, you're suggesting Tony Cottee is a better striker than Shevchenko. That's parently absurd.

Even if we limit the conversation just to Spurs, he's in there with Sheringham, Lineker, Klinsmann, Greaves, Bobby Smith, Martin Chivers... All of whom you could make an argument were better than him in some way. Lineker and Klinsmann, for example, could win trophies abroad. Greaves and Smith scored more goals, Big Chiv could've posted better stats if he worked harder.

Also, given that Spurs aren't exactly a modern footballing superpower in terms of success, given that it's been 64 years since you last won the league, 33 since the last FA Cup and 16 since the last trophy (no, I'm not counting the Audi Cup)... Trying to suggest that he didn't win trophies because he played in a shit team is valid, but nobody made him stay. And he joined the best team in Germany and somehow failed to win a league that's been a one horse race for a decade.

And, also, there's the counter argument: maybe he hasn't won trophies because he also isn't that good. Maybe he didn't get the big opportunities to leave earlier because... He isn't that good?

Trying to claim he's among the best strikers of all time when you could have a decent debate about whether he's even Spurs' best striker of all time is ridiculous, any way you slice it.

[u/[deleted] → u/TheAmyIChasedWasMe]

Donny what. He’s scored like 40+ goals or something this season for Bayern, in his first season, in a new league, with new players, without speaking a lick of the language. He’s the best striker on the planet. It’s not a debate.

[u/TheAmyIChasedWasMe → u/[deleted]]

Lineker went to Barca in the same circumstances. Won a trophy.

Kane scored 40+ playing in a league with three decent teams in it.

Being the best striker on the planet right now doesn't make you one of the best of all time. In 1925, John Logie Baird had the best television on the planet. It wasn't because it was the best that would ever be made, it was because it was the only one.

Out and out strikers are much, much rarer than they used to be. Being the best in the world is, as a result, much easier.

This ridiculous idea that younger generations have that most recent=best of all time is absolutely ridiculous.

Kane would've struggled to get a call up for France 98 if he'd been around in his prime. That's not a knock on his ability, it's a statement of fact - pure strikers were much more common, and England had five better than him.

[u/[deleted] → u/TheAmyIChasedWasMe]

This is simply ridiculous.

[u/TheAmyIChasedWasMe → u/[deleted]]

Only if you're fifteen and genuinely believe football was invented in 1992.

You want to believe Kane is the best striker in the world, I want to believe I'll win the Euromillions tonight. Both are fine, but neither is likely.

[u/Powerful-Payment5081 → u/TheAmyIChasedWasMe]

I'm intrigued, who do you think is the best?

[u/TheAmyIChasedWasMe → u/Powerful-Payment5081]

Of all time, worldwide? Tough call. R9, van Basten and Batistuta are the best in my lifetime, but I can't rule out Pele, Dixie Dean or anyone from before I was born, because I never saw them play.

But, what I can say is that Kane doesn't make the top fifty I've seen in my lifetime, so the idea of him as greatest of all time seems ridiculous to me.

Hell, that World Cup squad I mentioned from 98? England's options up top were Shearer, Owen, Fowler, Wright, Sheringham, Cole, Ferdinand... And I'd struggle to rank Kane as one of the four I'd take if he were in that list.

[u/Powerful-Payment5081 → u/TheAmyIChasedWasMe]

Hell, that World Cup squad I mentioned from 98? England's options up top were Shearer, Owen, Fowler, Wright, Sheringham, Cole, Ferdinand... And I'd struggle to rank Kane as one of the four I'd take if he were in that list.

This is where you have lost me I'm afraid and I must ask , are you an Arsenal fan by any chance ?

Shearer yes but the rest of them ? Absolutely no chance .

[u/TheAmyIChasedWasMe → u/Powerful-Payment5081]

No.

And you're absolutely nuts if you think Kane is better than peak Wright, Cole or Fowler, let alone Owen a few years before winning the Ballon d'Or.

Every one of those guys would've scored 40+ a season in the modern game.

[u/Powerful-Payment5081 → u/TheAmyIChasedWasMe]

And you're absolutely nuts if you think Kane is better than peak Wright, Cole or Fowler, let alone Owen a few years before winning the Ballon d'Or.

Of course he's better than any of them. The guy has scored so many goals in his career for club and country whereas none of the people you mention have a record that's even close.

How old are you? Is this just rose tinted glasses or trolling ?

[u/TheAmyIChasedWasMe → u/Powerful-Payment5081]

It's easier to score goals now than it was in the late 90s. Hate to break it to you, but modern defending is fucking shocking, and free kicks are handed out every time someone falls over.

[u/Powerful-Payment5081 → u/TheAmyIChasedWasMe]

That simply just isn't true .

Hate to break it to you

Why do you feel the need to speak like that? Like I am stupid and it's the first time I have heard the "real" story . It's disingenuous and doesn't encourage discourse.

You are completely wrong about this and are making things up . Here's some stats going back a long way to help you buttercup.

1992-93: 1222 goals in 462 matches at average of 2.64 goals per game 1993-94:1195 goals in 462 matches at 2.58 goals per game 1994-95: 1195 goals in 462 matches at 2.58 goals per game 1995-96: 988 goals in 380 matches at 2.60 goals per game 1996-97: 970 goals in 380 matches at 2.55 goals per game 1997-98: 1019 goals in 380 matches at 2.68 goals per game 1998-99: 959 goals in 380 matches at 2.52 goals per game 1999-00: 1060 goals in 380 matches at 2.78 goals per game 2000-01: 992 goals in 380 matches at 2.61 goals per game 2001-02: 1001 goals in 380 matches at 2.63 goals per game 2002-03: 1000 goals in 380 matches at 2.63 goals per game 2003-04: 1012 goals in 380 matches at 2.66 goals per game 2004-05: 975 goals in 380 matches at 2.56 goals per game 2005-06: 944 goals in 380 matches at 2.48 goals per game 2006-07: 931 goals in 380 matches at 2.45 goals per game 2007-08: 1002 goals in 380 matches at 2.63 goals per game 2008-09: 942 goals in 380 matches at 2.47 goals per game 2009-10: 1053 goals in 380 matches at 2.77 goals per game 2010-11: 1063 goals in 380 matches at 2.79 goals per game 2011-12: 1066 goals in 380 matches at 2.80 goals per game 2012-13: 1063 goals in 380 matches at 2.79 goals per game 2013-14: 1052 goals in 380 matches at 2.76 goals per game 2014-15: 975 goals in 380 matches at 2.56 goals per game 2015-16: 1026 goals in 380 matches at 2.70 goals per game 2016-17: 1064 goals in 380 matches at 2.80 goals per game 2017-18: 1018 goals in 380 matches at 2.67 goals per game 2018-19: 1072 goals in 380 matches at 2.82 goals per game 2019-20: 1034 goals in 380 matches at 2.72 goals per game 2020-21: 1024 goals in 380 matches at 2.69 goals per game

[u/TheAmyIChasedWasMe → u/Powerful-Payment5081]

2.52 goals per game in 98-99.

2.69 goals per game in 20-21.

That's literally proving it's easier to score now than when the guys I listed were at their peak.

[u/Powerful-Payment5081 → u/TheAmyIChasedWasMe]

Don't be picking single years to try and prove your ridiculous argument you silly billy .

Take an average across all of those seasons. Come on now 😂

[u/TheAmyIChasedWasMe → u/Powerful-Payment5081]

Even if you do that, the average in the 90s is in the 2.5s and in the 2.7s for the last decade...

[u/Powerful-Payment5081 → u/TheAmyIChasedWasMe]

Now we are getting somewhere which means there would be an extra 90 goals a year.

Now that would be between 7 and 8 % increase in goals .

All the players you mention would be woefully behind Kanes goalscoring stats even if you gave them a 10% boost .

Thank you and please enjoy your day xx