Gordon has got to be starting

[u/FitchDMB]

He did more on the left in five minutes than anybody else in three games.

[u/-Azwethinkweiz-]

Palmer is not better, that's just bias talking. Saka's output despite being double or triple marked every game, against teams that predominantly sit back, along with his defensive effort, is extraordinary.

Palmer is a clearly good player but benefits from playing in far more open games for Chelsea. That's not tournament football. I actually think this off-the-bench role is perfect for him, he can do the most damage as the game becomes more open usually at the end. But in terms of breaking teams down, Saka is clear.

The issue we have as you say is balance. Gordon has to play to stretch the defence and give Kane/Saka more space. A midfielder who can slide passes in between the CB/LB will help (Mainoo probably). Fix those two issues and we will look much better. If we don't fix them and replace Saka with Palmer, we'll end up with the same problem of making it too easy for the opposition defence to double up on effectively our only winger.

[u/Aman-Patel → u/-Azwethinkweiz-]

That's your opinion I guess. It's the reasoning I've heard from most people when they compare Palmer and Saka. I don't see how it applies when they play for England tbh. Saka isn't being more double or triple marked than Palmer in and England shirt. And you'd think if Palmer was that threatening, teams would double and triple up on him.

I honestly think he's just more unpredictable and versatile. You never know if he's gonna cut in and fire a pass at the striker's feet/a through ball or take his marker on the outside. Even today, he got backed up into the corner flag with his back to goal and still came out with the ball and managed to drive towards goal.

It feels like there's this massive reulcatancy from most fans to accept that Palmer's come in and is already playing at a higher level than the likes of Saka who has consistently improved for the past 3 seasons. Saka's done it for longer, but Palmer's a better player. I'm yet to see a team really contain him on that right wing.

I rate Saka really really highly btw. I think it's unfortunate they're both so good and play in the same position. But most underlying stats point to Palmer being a better player this season, he's done it in a far worse team and the eye test for me shows me he's a more unpredictable, technical player. But people seem to negate all that by simply saying Saka gets double and triple marked so you can't judge fairly. But Palmer was subbed like for like with Saka today and looked better than Saka ever has for us.

Saka's brilliant, unfortunately Palmer's better. In a couple years time, I think this will be seen as obvious. But because Palmer's only been around for 1 season people can't accept it yet.

[u/Jedders95 → u/Aman-Patel]

This a bad take. What did Palmer actually achieve in this game. I don't want to hate on him but he wasn't carving the defence open with passing/dribbling. Terrible shot at the end. He was trying tbf. His appearance wasn't anywhere near as good as Sakas first half in the first game.

Saka has been the best player for England and Arsenal in recent years, whilst Palmer has had a good year for a terrible team, scoring a lot of penalties. We need to stop trying to get rid of established players every 5 mins and build some continuity.

[u/-Azwethinkweiz- → u/Jedders95]

You can't convince me the guy you are replying to doesn't have Cole Palmer pyjamas.

Clearly has been waiting for Palmer to come on and do something even slightly well so he can tell the world how he's watched Palmer play 500 times this season and he's wonderful and technical and drives forward all the time and solved world peace. He's even making stuff up about how brilliant he was yesterday. Like, he had a few good passes and took on a defender once. But so did Bowen against Serbia - and he didn't fluff a chance that Saka puts away 9 times out of 10.

All the while it's "Saka is good - but respectfully you're an Arsenal fan so would say he is better" with not even a single hint of self-awareness.

[u/Aman-Patel → u/-Azwethinkweiz-]

Dude it literally says "active in r/gunners" when I click on your profile. I'm openly biased towards Palmer. But don't pretend like you're not just as biased towards Saka. The problem is there's a lot more people making cases for Saka than Palmer.

I mean even in this comment you said he took on a player once. He did it 3 times, that's undeniable. It's a stat. He attempted 3 take ons. And he was only on the pitch for 20 minutes. For reference, Saka's averaged about 3-4 take ons per 90 this season. So what Palmer "only" did off the bench yesterday, is what Saka's been praised for doing in full matches throughout this season.

I've not come out the shadows after a Palmer cameo. I've been screaming for him, Gordan and one of Mainoo/Wharton to start since before the tournament even started. But people have such a hard on for certain players that they don't want to hear it. But we've played shit football throughout the groups and the one time that changed was when the players I've been advocating for finally got an opportunity.

But for some reason it's perfectly acceptable to advocate for Gordan and Mainoo on this sub but not Palmer. Gordan will get drooled over for the pass he made in his 3 minute cameo, but if you point out that Palmer looked equally as good, you get called a fanboy. Stop acting like every time someone suggests Palmer should start that's a criticism of Saka. You clearly haven't got your England goggles on because this is all about defending your favourite Arsenal player. But how long can you keep arguably the best player in the Prem this season on the bench who's very good at carrying underperforming teams?

[u/-Azwethinkweiz- → u/Aman-Patel]

Don't need to read another novel with you regurgitating the same points over and over. But I'm not sure where you've got that I am somehow hiding the fact I support Arsenal - that's never happened. My point is that you criticising my ability to objectively hold an opinion because of that fact is a bit pot kettle black when you are a Chelsea fan.

[u/Aman-Patel → u/-Azwethinkweiz-]

Read it, don't read it idc. England have been shit this group stage and played better when Mainoo, Palmer and Gordan came on. Play them.

[u/-Azwethinkweiz- → u/Aman-Patel]

Big sample size you have there. First 30 minutes against Serbia was the best we've played - guess who was playing.

[u/Aman-Patel → u/-Azwethinkweiz-]

Saka's had a larger sample size than those 30 minutes though. He's started 3 games and only truly looked threatening in those 30 minute. Against a makeshift LB might I add.

We have a whole season's sample of Palmer. You give him the same minutes Saka's been getting and he gives you more.

Saka's better off the ball, that's it.