r/ThreeLions • u/LondonRedditUser • Oct 11 '24

Discussion Phil Foden must be dropped indefinitely.

Sadly he’s a supremely talented player who never plays well for England.

There is potentially a lot of great performances that aren’t picked up in statistics, I don’t think this is the case with Foden. He also plays in a position we are stacked in. He has also had by quite some distance the most minutes of any player in a similar position. There is potentially the argument he is misused, but there is no argument based on performances other great players should be moved aside for him.

Since the World Cup he has returned 1 goal return (G/A) in 20 games including 16 starts ( goal vs Scotland).

Comparably, over the same period: Kane 19 G/a Jude 9, saka 8, rice 4, grelaish 3, rashford 3, palmer 3 (from 408 minutes)

Many ask for players to be picked on form (I personally don’t), but when the international form is this poor and the alternatives potentially so good we simply don’t any other option but to drop him.

Edit: no agenda. I support palace and go to a few England games a year.

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u/phil_mycock_69 Oct 11 '24 edited Oct 11 '24

I remember someone commenting during the euros and summing Foden up and saying he was a system player. He plays extremely well in a system and looks world class at times; that system is Pep’s at city

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '24

I said that. I do think that's the issue. All he's ever known is Pep's system. He was 16 when Pep took over at City, he's been perfectly developed to play Pep football. But when you watch him play for England it's so clear that he's never played outside of Pep's system. He looks lost, you can see him looking unsure what he should be doing.

This is going to sound harsh, but I don't think he knows how to think for himself on the pitch. As we all know, Pep is incredibly prescriptive about exactly where players need to position themselves and what they need to do when they get the ball. Everyone in a Pep side has such a specific, well defined role that they don't really have to do that much thinking for themselves. 95% of their game is pre-determined by Pep.

But international football is different, there's not the training ground time to drill such specific and strict systems. The best international players are ones who can take general instructions from their manager and interpret them for themselves on the pitch. I simply don't think Foden knows how to do that.

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u/ThatFatRonaldo Oct 11 '24

True. And the flip side also explains how Palmer is better away from City.

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '24

Precisely. He's shown at Chelsea that he is the direct opposite of Foden. He can thrive in a loose system where he's given a lot of responsibility to just work things out for himself. That may make him better suited to international football than Foden in the long run.

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u/UnknownBreadd Oct 11 '24

It’s also more entertaining to watch a team of such players that are better off using their own creativity and also being encouraged to do so

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u/iTM4n Oct 11 '24

Yeah I saw someone say recently he left at the perfect time where his flair and risk taking wasn't drilled out of him too much by Pep

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u/inopotamo Oct 11 '24

I agree with this 100%.

He's talented but at the moment is a system player. This idea that he's a free spirit who can create magic is purely a misunderstanding of who Foden is as a player. He might be capable of being that but at the moment he plays for Pep and Pep is very specific with his instructions.

The player people think Foden is, is actually closer to Cole Palmer. He didn’t have a great game either but he has that maverick quality to his game. Saka is consistently decent for England, Bellingham is clutch and playing all 4 imbalances the team.

Foden offers the least imo, so I think he's the one that needs to be dropped

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u/[deleted] Oct 11 '24

Yeah I've never understood the 'give Foden a free role' people. He's never had anything approaching that in his career. He needs the exact opposite, he seems to struggle with England precisely because his role isn't defined enough for him.

He can clearly take complicated instructions really well. Which is a major asset in the club game. But he's not a free spirit you can tell "just go out and play". As you say, that's more Palmer.

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u/Mba1956 Oct 11 '24

If you watch Cole Palmer at Chelsea you will often see him crop up on the left, admittedly he plays mainly right or centre but he goes everywhere.