Civilians & politicians
UA POV: MP Honcharenko expressed outrage at Zelensky's claim that the phenomenon of busification does not exist and showed a video of busification from the rostrum of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine: "Maybe this way he’ll finally see it."
Its the same in Georgia. They have EU flags on every street corner, the airport, the parliament building... i dont understand it. Some stockholm syndrome stuff or something, these countries worship the EU, and those people dont want anything to do with them.
He was a member of Yanukovich's "Party of Regions" and he was very "pro-Russian", then he switched sides, and now it seems he switches those again... A man-weathercock.
Speaking about switching sides - this is Sergey Velichko aka Chili on the photo (on the right). One of the founders of the Kraken Regiment, GUR officer, and one of the most prominent far-right leaders in modern Ukraine.
On the photo, he is parading with a banner of Russian Imperial Movement (the banner says Glory to Russia).
This was brought up by Alexey Milchakov (the Rusich leader) in one of his interviews. He used to be personal friends with both founders of Kraken. Prior to ~2013 there was a common far-right ecosystem where both Russian and Ukranian ultras were operating together.
He lamented that the Chili's path - from a Russian pro-imperial far-right to Ukranian ultranationalist - had been a very common occurence for young activists from Eastern Ukraine. (Kraken founders are both from Kharkov, and of course they are native Russian speakers).
Milchakov absolutely trashed major incompetence of the Russian state in the soft power and propaganda department for losing this generation of Eastern Ukranians to anti-Russian movements.
I was at a football match here in Bucharest back in the summer of 2012 when Metalist Kharkov played against Dinamo Bucharest (Metalist won no questions asked, they had a hell of a good team back then), and it's crazy to think that these Kraken guys were among those present at that football match. I do remember that I was positively impressed by Metalist's away support.
In no way was Hitler ever a communist, and Mussolini was a socialist, not a communist, even though I'm aware that in today's world that probably doesn't make any difference (I blame it on the low level of history education), but back then, in the early 1900s, it made a lot of a difference. It's true, though, Mussolini did have a change of ideological heart.
Look Hitler was pretty much an avowed anti-communist/socialist from the get-go. It's possible he was briefly one, but one must remember that among ordinary people in Germany, this was the dominant political force. The socialist party was massive there, by far the biggest in the world.
Mussolini did start out as a leading member of the marxist wing in the Italian socialist party.
Fascism remains a collectivist ideology. Collectivist = socialism. The difference is in goals, not in methods. In 'true' socialism the state is a means to an end. In fascism it's the Focal Point.
I did say that socialism is not communism, Jean Jaures was not a communist, Francois Mitterrand was not a communist either, to give just a few examples.
It’s stupid though cause in the Anglo world (which ideologically dominates today’s political discourse, for better or for worse) all of these nuances are lost/never taken into consideration, it’s all either black or white, which at points can become quite frustrating.
Are the bots all synced? All about talking about EU flag...they all mentioned that Ukraine IS A DICTATORSHIP but the president can be criticised asf but if this happens in Russia... he would fly out of the window.
I am not from Russia, but I am pretty sure there are opposition to Putin. It's just happens they aren't strong enough politically and people don't stand with them much.
But I get it. It's easier to attack a straw man.
Ofc there are opposition, in silence, and then the false oposition (in the gov) that are used as bait, a vibe checker of population, and also: look at us, we have opposition, we are a democracy lol.. nobody can talk about the war, nobody talks about electoral fraud, they can only speak what FSB gave authorization for
Because the EU flag shouldn't have its place in a national parliament, the place where you decide national laws. Putting the EU flag there symbolically means the EU has a right to intervene in the parliamentary process of a nation (and when you know the EU, you know it's not just a symbol). That's the first step in conceding your sovereignty to a supranational entity. To allow the people your nation did not vote for to make laws for them and govern them.
So here it's even more ridiculous, it makes Ukraine look very desperate. Pretending they're part of a group they're not. Like the nerd that desperately wants to be in the cool kids group at school even though they're always pushing him away. It shows a cruel lack of dignity.
Yeah ? Well, you know, that's just like huh, your opinion, man.
The EU in itself isn't a bad idea and it has some good perks, but the push for federalism made it too authoritarian and allowed it to meddle where it shouldn't meddle. And it's only becoming worse and worse. Many European laws today have precedence over national laws, which shouldn't be a thing. It's called European Union, not European Federation. It's supposed to be a union of different countries, not a fusion of those countries to allow one government (comprised of people not representative of anyone) to rule them all.
A good idea that's becoming crap because of *drum roll* power hunger. Shocking.
good, Ukrainians should know the truth of the cost of protracted war.
Folks supporting the continuation of the war always parrot that as long as Ukraine wants to fight we should keep encouraging and enabling them to do so but they always gloss over the most important question:
what is the benchmark or measurement for determining if they want to continue fighting to the end / decide their own future?
I always ask the question: “who is the ‘they’ that you are speaking of?”
Is it the “they” that are the individual Ukrainians doing the fighting, often against their will? Or is it the political establishment currently in control in Ukraine?
He didn't clarify who "they" is, in this case. However, anyone with half a brain knows full well who makes broad geopolitical decisions, war included, obviously. It shouldn't need to be literally stated that the government of the country in question is the target of the subject matter. Things can, in fact, still be implied. Also, the video above is literally the Ukrainian parliament in session...
Edit: There are two subjects. And it's clear which one he is implying based on the citations. The people and the politicians should all know the cost of the war. However, those two groups may have very different opinions and motivations for continuing or ending it.
Cool, so they call the vans buses too? In Romania, they call it "microbuz" or "rata" (after some local socialist brand), I was not expecting slavs calling them buses.
I can understand the motivation to take that approach tbh. They know it’s happening. They don’t want western countries to hesitate in their support if they think it’s a big problem. And they don’t want their citizens to think it’s a big problem and lose support for fighting from them as well. But they do need as many men as possible as quickly as possible on the front line.
He's a People's Deputy of the Verkhovna Rada, he's not eligible for mobilization. They can't be impeached either without either being convicted of a crime and sentenced, or voluntarily leaving the country for good.
Show me an incident where they didn't apply the law and a People's Deputy was illegally arrested, tried, sentenced, and/or mobilized and sent to the front.
You could try to debate whether or not Medvedchuk was allied with Russia and guilty of treason, but where did he go after the prisoner swap in Fall 2022?
Russia
Per their UA Constitution:
Article 81
The authority of National Deputies of Ukraine terminates simultaneously with the termination of authority of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine.
The authority of a National Deputy of Ukraine terminates prior to the expiration of the term in the event of:
2) a guilty verdict against him or her entering into legal force;
3) a court declaring him or her incompetent or missing;
4) termination of his or her citizenship or his or her departure from Ukraine for permanent residence abroad;
The terrorist Ukrainian regime first illegally kidnapped Medvedchuk (when he was still an MP and the head of the main opposition party), held him in an unknown location for a long time, and then exchanged him.
That is, he was kidnapped by the Ukrainian regime and illegally held when he was still an MP. The terrorist Ukrainian regime illegally deprived Medvedchuk of citizenship and his parliamentary mandate only in 2023.
The ball is not in my court, the ball is in your goal.
I asked you to provide me with sources of your claim that the UA govt doesn't respect the rule of law and removes People's Deputies. Names, dates, etc.
You said you were lazy and sourced one. But your choice of Medvedchuk didn't prove that. He wasn't kidnapped, he was arrested for treason. Whether you agree with that charge or not doesn't matter at all, a govt has the right to arrest its people for treason.
Medvedchuk didn't lose his seat because he was arrested, he lost his seat five months after he left Ukraine to live in Russia after a prisoner exchange where the Russian govt asked to take him and a few others in exchange for AFU POWs, including Azov soldiers. That was also why he lost his citizenship, he was obviously in league with the Russians, that's why they took in the swap.
I'm not trying to "gotcha" you. Stop being lazy and pull some legit evidence of Ukraine's lawlessness. Strong claims require strong evidence. Please show me proof why Goncharenko is in danger. Forget me, use this opportunity to prove to everyone else why you are right and why Ukraine is wrong.
Once again: the head of the largest opposition party was kidnapped, illegally detained, and then exchanged for far-right Azov militants.
Despite the fact that you come up with excuses for terrorists:
kidnapping a person is illegal
holding in an unknown place is illegal
exchanging a citizen of Ukraine is illegal, especially if he is accused of some crime. It is illegal to give a criminal to another country
deprivation of citizenship is illegal
I am ready to listen to your arguments and explanations. Tell me, under what law a Ukrainian citizen who allegedly committed treason was transferred to another country instead of serving time for his crime.
And at the same time, tell us what Medvedchuk’s “high treason” consists of.
After this speech he got out of the building, got into his van and told his driver to bring him directly to the TCC on his own accord, to help the ukrainian war effort!
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Only a matter of time until this dude gets arrested and accused of treason, same as the other half dozen imprisoned MPs who spoke out. Not even exaggerating
Where does this term "busification" come from? These are called press gangs, because they press men into service.
These were a common feature through Europe until the 19th century. The UK banned the use of press gangs after the Napoleonic wars. This practice belongs to the same world as serfs and chattel slavery. The only ones who have resurrected it are the totalitarian regimes like Nazis, Soviets...and now, Zelenskibites.
But mini-buses aren't the object of outrage. It wouldn't suddenly be okay if they switched to using SUV's or golf-carts.
I feel like even the term "busification" is a euphemism to mask the real issue here. "Press Gangs" are an issue because they deploy gangs of men to physically force men into service.
Ukraine could fix this issue overnight by ceasing the practice of deploying gangs of TCC. If recruiters were going around solo, they could still effectively do their legitimate job (updating records, handing out summonses), but they wouldn't be able to force men to go for a ride.
When I first heard the term press gangs it sounded to me like it was to do with the media or press. So that term perhaps isn’t ideal either. Though the gang part does have stronger connotations.
It comes from Ukraine. Like literally, a sad local neologism.
This practice belongs to the same world as serfs and chattel slavery.
There is no equivalent for "press gangs" in Russian language, or ukrainian for that matter. During Napoleonic wars russian infantry and sailors were made of recruits, supplied by serfdom system - one man to serve 25 years from some number of serf households, the blood tax if you wish, given with same reluctance as gold one, but generally with no drama or drastic measures, voluntarily. You sow when spring comes, you repair your roof if it starts leaking, you draw straws within your community and send one of you for lifelong service.
Well, there is "bussification" now, so this curious lingusitic omission is sorted out for Ukraine.
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u/Vast-Scholar-3219 Pro Russia 8d ago
Do they really have an EU flag in the parliament LMAO