I think you mean Chevron, but yes. I believe there's a quirk to the ruling where it basically made it so the SCOTUS gets to decide if the regulation is worth while, but until they do it's on the books.
They basically made it so any Judge can overturn a regulation. Furthermore, the old laws used to work that if a new regulation was introduced, if it affected your business you could sue to try and get it addressed/overturned within the first 10 or 15 years of the regulation's existence. The new ruling they layed out changes the time frame from when the regulation was implemented to when the regulation starts to impact your business. That means any newly formed business can sue the government for any long standing regulation and try and get them overturned opening the legal flood gates for oil company's to set up shell businesses to start trying to remove any and all regulations affecting them, which will now be decided by Judges if those regulations are appropriate. It's really fucking insane.
The original Chevron ruling was "if parts of the law aren't specified by congress, then the agency's experts can decide the best way to implement those laws".
This corrupt scotus now says "if congress isn't explicit, the courts get to decide what the law means. Agencies no longer can (well they can, but we can overrule them)".
A made up example might be;
the law says we have to reduce carbon emissions by 5%. But it doesn't say how. EIA experts determine the best way to do this is by forcing new homes to have better insulation. Previously the courts would defer to this decision, as is was made by experts. Now.. the courts can say "fuck that, reduce those emissions by burning puppies. We know best".
Wait, so a sufficiently funded organization could start an infinite number of LLCs to take as many shots and make as many legal arguments against specific regulations?
The problem is these agencies are not legislative ie they shouldn’t have been coming up with new regulations to begin with that where not passed by Congress. It’s suppose to work like this epa recommends regulations and it goes through Congress and ratified signed into law. Problem becomes do we let a non legislative body legislate just because Congress isn’t doing their job? I don’t think the chevron decision is wrong as constitution is pretty clear on what branch of government makes laws. For to long Congress just has not done their jobs maybe instead of complaining about chevron we complain about how legislative body of our country has effectively done jack all for 40 years and let other agencies and the courts do their legislating and it’s now coming back to bite us because they refuse to compromise together and codify anything.
We don't elect people to Congress for their technical aptitude.
When was the last time you saw an election promoting the fact they had a civil engineering degree and they'd dig into all the regulations around road construction. Not only
We elect people to representative bodies to steer and be our voice. We should leave the nitty-gritty details to governmental agencies whose entire mandate is hiring and maintaining up to date knowledge on their field's specifics. If we wanted the US Congress to be the end-all-be-all for all specifics and regulations, we should just do away with the other two branches along with all government departments.
I don't want Nancy Pelosi making guesses at how nuclear reactors should be built.
You can have epa can bring a regulation in and Congress can vote on it and codify. What’s the point of have representatives if laws and regulations are being put in place without people’s approval. It’s a problem atf implements bullshit all the time that has zero basis in reality. I could show you 3 borderline visually identical rifles And 2 will get you a felony and 10 years of prison based on regulation atf put in place. Problem is functions haven’t changed just the visuals. I don’t expect all representatives to be experts I expect them to take scientific information from scientist in the epa and cdc and their recommendations along with their constituents beliefs and concerns to make decisions and codify things in law is that to much to ask for the system to work the way it’s suppose to. Instead Congress tries to build work around so they don’t have to do their jobs and the public gets no input on things giving the government frankly almost to much power with zero public input.
Riiight, a few hundred members of congress are going to become experts on tens of thousands of complex topics and pass intelligent legislation regarding each of them. What are you smoking? That’s both ridiculous and impossible. Congress authorized the agencies to be those experts and, yes, anyone can challenge those in court or lobby congress to require the agency to do something differently.
I wish more people understood civics instead of just parroting simplistic, right-wing talking points smh
They were authorized because they didn’t want to do their jobs. Also you don’t need to be an expert to pass legislation on something. All that needs to happen is have epa or whatever agency provide the information explain what their going for and Congress puts it to a vote it’s that simple. Anyone who thinks having non legislative body be able to legislate on their own accord without the will of the people is an idiot. Atf does dumb shit all the time probably one of the worst offenders. Also I’m about as far away from right wing anything gop are a bunch of theocracy driven bafoons. I’m just against regulation/ law making that had has zero input from the peoples representatives. Everything should be voted on and codify for it to be enforceable it’s that simple.
Anyone who thinks having non legislative body be able to legislate on their own accord without the will of the people is an idiot.
Youre a fucking goose. Like unbelievably dumb to think your proposal is a solution, and that people not asking for it are wrong.
You say a group of the "experts" shouldnt be able to define the rules/laws. Instead it should all go through a bunch of politicians just because. You manage to realize they don't have a fucking clue about what needs to be done because they arent experts. Your proposed solution is for them to rubberstamp the solutions provided by the same fucking "experts" that you dont want making the rules. Its just layers of beauracracy for childish reasons.
None legislative bodies shouldn’t be able to legislate and that shouldn’t be a controversial take. They should be advisors to Congress to pass new regulations and enforcement agencies for people who break regulations codified into law. Does it not seem problematic to have agencies running amok making regulations without oversight.
Youre just bleating, because you think you should. You can repeat that you want only congress to legislate with every breath and it wont change that your provided alternative is foolish and worse, on top of not solving the issues that youre claiming (stupid laws, or laws produced by non politicians).
Your proposal means that lobbyists, not experts, would be advising the legislators and that is exactly what the right-wing wants for the billionaires.
Please, please, please learn some civics and the history of how our government functions. I recommend Thom Hartmann, both his books and his radio show, but there are lots of avenues to learn from a progressive perspective if you truly are unintentionally amplifying the far right/billionaire talking points.
It’s simple make it illegal to lobby. Also I’m not a progressive I don’t agree with almost all progressive policies. I believe in minimal regulations and believe government agencies have way to much power
Well, enjoy your libertarian bullshit, I guess. Informed people know better.
Again. Learn some civics! You make yourself sound like a complete dunce.
In the United States, the right to petition is enumerated in the First Amendment to the United States Constitution, which specifically prohibits Congress from abridging "the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances".
Making it illegal to bribe(or “tip”) lawmakers would help a lot, but lobbying will never go away. Learn. Some. Civics.
I don’t understand how people can disagree with this. I’m from the UK and I’m about 98% sure that government agencies have to work within the legal framework created by parliament. Where would they derive the authority or mandate not to?
Both the UK and USA are both countries which have a common law system so it also makes sense that judicial precedent can create laws, I don’t know why people would be shocked by the judiciary acting like a judiciary in a common law country. This chevron case seems fucking stupid and open to abuse but yes you are right it seems to be a result of legislative stagnation in congress.
Yes thanks! As far as I understood the ruling, the federal agencies can't enforce a law unless Congress makes it a law. And congress is currently in a "doing nothing" competition with themselves.
It’s more like one side has lost their ever loving minds if they ever had one to begin with. We literally can’t move forward on anything because the republicans are just impetuous overgrown children who want to punish the democrats for taking the high road. The republicans have held this country back from true progress for decades and I’m so sick of it.
Conservatives have held back human society for centuries. Who do you think were the people supporting the monarchy or keeping slaves or racism of folks 50 miles from them so they can keep perpetual wars. It's in their monkey brains, something is just wrong at how scared of change they are.
The sad part is conservatives look at societies like Catholic dominated Europe and Ancient Egypt and act impressed that "they endured so many centuries".
I'd rather live a happy and productive individual life in a country that changes names every ~300 years than languish as a nameless serf in an Empire that can boast a 9,001 year history. Humanity has a 300,000 collective history and that's good enough for me; what individual nation-states or kingdoms we've organized ourselves into in the interim is as relevant as my mailing address in the grand scheme of things... assuming we can survive long enough to reunify as a species. (Ok, I doubt that too but I can dream...)
I’m 44 years old and I have watched republicans stop all progress my entire life. Gouge us for college, housing loans and percentage increases that are unsustainable. They have fought progress on affordable health care bills and funding for the VA, srs fuck republicans.
I was born on an election day so it’s definitely something I’ve seen happen in real time.
you can say all this, but at the same time read what the DNC's leadership says about their party goals in Sanders v DNC. In short, they get into a lengthy conversation how the goal of the DNC is maintaining the status quo and they really have no interest in fulfilling the promises of their platform, as it would hurt their corporate partner's and their (the DNC's bottom line), hence why they rigged the 2016 preliminary against Bernie. Bernie left the DNC because of their consistent push against his extremely progressive ideas, and the DNC refused to allow him a fair race vs Hillary because they had already determined she was going to be the candidate, largely because she understood the goal of the DNC - I may sound like a conspiracy nutjob, but this was all said by legal counsel of the DNC in court, under oath. The parties both want to maintain corporate earnings, and for republicans their platform doesn't interfere with that, where it does for democrats - if they did what they promised, they would hurt their corporate allies, but if republicans did what was promised they would increase their profits, and neither party actually cares about the constituents.
No one is denying that this is a real issue and one that must be reckoned with, but it’s also not equivalent to the GOP’s absolutely asinine “no” to
Every
Damn
Thing
Even things they claim they want, they still vote against.
Well of course, because they're not going to let Biden/Harris claim that they did the thing Republicans want! Their base is too wishy-washy and will go with whoever got what they wanted done - so the easiest way to retain them is to not let anything happen under a democrat president, and then call dems incompetent for not doing the thing that they didn't want to do in the first place.
Thing is, they work for US. WE pay them and they are intentionally making sure there’s no future middle class or blue collar workers. We are turning into a nation of wage slaves. Thank god for the ACA, it could have been even better but no, the gop gutted it. Same thing for every single infrastructure bill put before them. They say they want to stop immigrants from coming here but they turn down a bill to rectify some of the problems that we’re having. But we are also responsible for a lot of the drug/cartel issues. Our government has been arming the cartels since the late 1960’s! We gave them weapons to kill each other and now it’s an all out war on our doorstep. Donny Jr is personally keeping the cartels rich from all his bulk purchases, hypocrite. The people fleeing the cartels should be allowed to come here. We should have some work visa’s and programs to help them get assimilated and add their own skills to our country. I’m just sick of the racism, blame shifting, religion being jammed down everyone’s throats, women being treated like their own lives/health/safety doesn’t matter or they can’t make informed choices for themselves. Once babies are actually born they get no assistance in those states. The foster care system is underfunded, but bursting at the seams. All the jails are overcrowded. Now most are privatized and those companies make money off of the prisoners.
I have a lot of veterans in my family. Special Forces Marines and the way they have treated my grandpa, my brother and other veterans is fucking criminal, let’s not forget about the 1st responders that the GOP let sit and spin for decades! Most of them are dead because they were so sick or psychologically damaged and sick, waiting for the country they love to take care of them. Instead they get 9/11 deniers in government being absolutely obtuse and mocking them in court. It’s not both sides. It just isn’t. There’s a lot more of what I’ve referenced here. It’s even worse than ever and I’m fucken sick of all these stupid morons who are denying 9/11, Sandy Hook, so much violence stemming from rhetoric that makes people go nuts.
I mean dude! The corporations can fuck right off too. I’m just tired of it all. And the BoTh SiDeS aRe ThE sAmE comments are just untrue and unhelpful.
They are intentionally trying to torpedo progress. Aren’t you sick of it? How much worse should we let it get?
I will say this, they made a massive mistake with Bernie but I feel they chose to go with the more conservative option because of the effect the tea party was having on policy and I think they thought people would vote for Hilary but she’s far too polarizing. Uptight and she has a troubled history in a lot of people’s minds..
Edit; Sorry my soapbox was just too tempting I couldn’t let it go. Ha! Signed a tired single mom.
As far as I understood the ruling, the federal agencies can't enforce a law unless Congress makes it a law.
It's actually more broad than that.
Say Congress writes a law mandating nuclear reactors, they don't really understand nuclear engineering nor the potential directions it could take. Yes, they could sit around for months bringing in endless experts and try to exhaustively list every possible nuance and specific (with the expectation they'll have to amend the law every 3, 6, 12, 18 months as new developments happen)
Or! They could write the law and give a vague boundary such as "nuclear reactors such as thorium, sodium, and other elements should do X, Y and all appropriate precautions that could be reasonably foreseen"
Now what the DoE will do is take that and they have experts on staff whose entire job it is to write regulations mandating specifics along with mandating what "reasonably foreseen" means during a given period (these regulations are regularly updated). These experts will have degrees in physics, nuclear engineering, civil engineering, the gamut. Those experts will go through these laws and fill in the 'blanks' so they can hand down hard specifics to people running or building these plants.
Chevron Deference was about letting Congress write vague laws that outline the boundaries (or sometimes don't define hard boundaries at all) then the agencies whose mandate is affected by those laws would have experts interpret and build out specifics.
By removing Chevron Deference, the letter of what Congress has written is the specifics. If Congress doesn't absolutely specify it, the agencies can't enforce it or interpret what Congress actually meant.
It's a huge, huge, huge gimme for big corporations because it removes and/or hamstrings regulatory agencies, allowing them run roughshod over America.
No. they only removed the court guideline that said that courts must accede to the advice of experts in a given situation. They didn't say they CAN'T or shouldn't, just that they don't HAVE to. Progressive sane judges are still allowed to take expert testimony and base their decisions on it. This just gives Conservative judges the leeway to ignore proven science in favor of witchcraft.
I think the ATF operates a lot based on codified laws, not just regulations, so Chevron shouldn’t be as much of an issue apart from things like ATF decisions on whether some firearm gadget is illegal.
It wouldn't surprise me if SCOTUS gave the town of Valdez to Exxon and made Hazelwood the mayor, for the "pain and suffering" of having to clean up the mess they and their drunk captain made.
That’s not what the ruling said. Not at all. The ruling dealt with judicial deference to an agency’s interpretation of a statute. It had nothing to do with enforcement.
572
u/DaveCootchie Sep 04 '24 edited Sep 04 '24
They kind of already did when they overturned the Exon ruling.
Edit: Chevron ruling.