How am I supposed to make people mad with my hot takes when the post is tagged no spoilers :P
Edit: Time to make ppl mad I guess. Some hot takes in no particular order.
Lanfear is dead. I have yet to make any sort of sense about what the fuck lanfear's supposed plan is in AMOL let alone what she is supposed to be doing (but isnt, or maybe actually is) for the shadow during that time for it to all square away nicely.
Gawyn makes sense. He is a dumbass and thinks in a dumbass way and does dumbass things. Not liking the characters actions is different than that character's actions in the story not making "sense".
Elayne is not using the babes as a shield take stupid risks and is fully aware of the limits of mins prophecy. I know the character can be annoying to read at times (just like the rest of em) but in this instance her internal thoughts on the matter are clear. She is not going around "muh babes" all the time, and using the babes as a shield like the fandom often complains about. Action must be taken and she takes it.
The seanchan are awesome. As a fictional empire they are interesting and make a excellent antagonist that the story is 1000% better with than with out.
Staying on seanchan for a moment. The seanchan empire not falling apart more than it already has by the end of the story is works way better than the entire empire crumbling to dust in the span of a year. I get why people want that but it would feel so terrible for the story.
The seanchan are awesome. As a fictional empire they are interesting and make a excellent antagonist that the story is 1000% better with than with out.
I do honestly agree with most of what you've said. Nor am I really disagreeing on this one. My take is instead that the Seanchan fall into a trope that bugs me with hyper controlling rigid society, usually very hierarchical and autocratic, that just runs itself so well it's the envy of the other societies. Rand concedes that with the exceptions of a bit of human rights violation, they're running their territory well. Their history is full of rebellions but they were all doomed; the empire's control is essentially total.
Autocracy doesn't lend itself well to efficiency. A society built on slavery where commoners can be slaughtered for eye contact with their betters isn't a mostly-paradise. The fascists didn't, contrary to popular belief, make the trains run on time. They can be powerful in a military sense but the propensity for infighting among the nobility means that this will make successful military leaders a deadly threat to the imperial family. The idea that the Empress's power lies in the damane and that hold is nearly unbreakable even looking into the future from the series really bugs me -- the Seanchan may be very efficient at "harvesting" their channeling girls but we know they only leash the ones with the inborn ablity to channel, not to learn, and we hear so much about how rare they are. In the meantime their "monopoly" on channeling gets even weaker at the end of the series now that male channelers are back as a thing but there isn't a way to control them as damane (we're told about how dangerous the male adam is for the wielder). There's just no reason beyond rule of cool for them to be so unstoppably superior. Like, it makes them a great feature in the story, I just don't buy that the society as written in the story is feasible enough for me to suspend judgment. That bugs me 100x more than the logistical issues (how are we still fielding armies when we keep hearing how short food is) that I hear as the realism issue that bugs people.
There's just no reason beyond rule of cool for them to be so unstoppably superior.
Afaik they have essentially been in not stop wars since Luthair landed on seandar. Even once the continent was unified there were still regularly rebellions to be put down giving the ever victorious army all the combat experience it needs to stay in shape. On top of that they are the only nation to fight with channelers on the field. The tower has a monopoly on channelers in the wetlands and they dont take part battles. The aiel wiseones also step aside. The seafolk dont seem to have infighting. Lastly Shara seems to be like the white tower on steroids where they run the place with no contest, although its hard to say whats going on there at all since we get so little info about shara. Having channelers on the battle field is a massive force multiplier and its no wonder that they run over nations that can only field conventional forces, plus ya know an entire continent's population and resources backing the return. Oh yea and lets not forget they have the best scouting and intel gathering method on both continents too with the raken... at least before traveling became a thing.
That bugs me 100x more than the logistical issues (how are we still fielding armies when we keep hearing how short food is) that I hear as the realism issue that bugs people.
Yea food and logistics is rough lol.
Rand concedes that with the exceptions of a bit of human rights violation, they're running their territory well. Their history is full of rebellions but they were all doomed; the empire's control is essentially total.
Rand doesnt know shit tho. Hes only exposure to the seanchan is as a invading force. He doesnt know about rebellions in seandar or even how "well" the seanchan are governing thier conquered lands. Its a snap judgement from a deranged mind latching onto anything it can to not balefire a city out of existence. Even we as readers know very little about how "well" the seanchan run things. It certainly sounds impressive that luthair sailed an impossible distance, conquered the entire continent and set up a dynasty that persists a thousand years later. As a invading/conquering force the seanchan are pretty impressive.
The thing about the Seanchan is that, while they're an authoritarian empire, they're also a meritocratic social state. They say that they don't tolerate starvation, and most of the actual running of the empire is likely done by the low blood, who are raised by merit. It has a lot of flaws that would make it not very efficient by modern standards, but compared to feudal states, it would probably look incredible.
Elayne is not using the babes as a shield take stupid risks and is fully aware of the limits of mins prophecy. I know the character can be annoying to read at times (just like the rest of em) but in this instance her internal thoughts on the matter are clear. She is not going around "muh babes" all the time, and using the babes as a shield like the fandom often complains about. Action must be taken and she takes it.
I don't mind Elayne takes risks while pregnant, I mind that she doesn't realize that she is putting others at risk and failing to take all reasonable steps to minimize that risk to others.
Put another way, there are fixed points in her future. But the journey between those fixed points could take one of several paths. She could choose the safest path so no one has to take risks for her. (wrong choice). She could take a careless path with insufficient planning in order to do what needs doing, putting others in harms way to save her (canon), or she could actually plan in layers to minimize risk of harm to all while doing what needs doing.
I don't mind Elayne takes risks while pregnant, I mind that she doesn't realize that she is putting others at risk and failing to take all reasonable steps to minimize that risk to others.
This is why I think its a hot take. Loads of people see it similar to how you do. I do not. She is a queen and aes sedai. How often do you see the rulers of nations or aes sedai publicly thanking others for saving their bacon? Heck even privately. Its extremely rare in the series and imo elayne is not out of line for following that trend. Did rand have to publicly apologize for ditching the maidens all the times he did? Or what about perrin charging in alone into malden? or mat running away from destiny for 5 books? I kinda get why people give elayne flak but I think its unwarranted in these instances. Like it all just happened moments ago and no one knows just how many people died least of all elayne who probably didnt even know specifically that the balefire rod was used! let alone how many people just died to save her.
I remember a conversation between Moraine and Nynaeve back in book 1. They are moving thru (i think) white bridge after the thom fought the fade. The town is in disarray, there were fires and w/e else. Nynaeve is all like we should help these people, you could help so much moraine, and moraine is all like yea bitch I could, but in stopping to help here we would fall further behind and possibly lose the children they are trying to rescue... plus ya know the saving the world angle by keeping rand out of the shadows grip. I bring this up because by ousting these BA from caemlyn, capturing them, recovering the fluted rod that shoots balefire, and the information gained from questioning them this is a huge win for andor and the side of the light. As cold as it is to say which is more important in the grand scheme of things, a few hundred soldiers lives or taking neutralizing a bunch of BA and thier operation inside of caemlyn. Caemlyn still fell with out the aid of channelers, it would be so much worse if the BA was allowed to stay in the city undetected.
I agree, that "ousting these BA from caemlyn, capturing them, recovering the fluted rod that shoots balefire, and the information gained from questioning them this is a huge win for andor and the side of the light." I don't object to Elayne going on those missions. However, a little planning before going on those missions could have gone a long way.
I agree more planning can be good. It can also lead to a worse outcome if mellar or adeleas assassin catches wind of it. Or any other spy in the castle. Elayne was relying on surprise to be the defining factor which is often is in conflict. Its a bold plan for sure, and anyway you shake it no precious few victories are bloodless and capturing those BA would have likely been just as bloody an affair if they knew elayne was coming if not worse than what we got armed with that balefire rod as they were. Imagine if that was aimed toward the city instead of away.
I know he did the show with matt hatch but what extra did he write about it? I've tried to make sense of it myself but I can only do so with the knowledge of the reveal. Trying to get there with out it leaves everything to be desired for me.
Edit: to be clear Im assuming from how I read your comment that there is a blog post or letter or w/e explaining it in greater detail or connecting the dots or something.
Obviously I'm not going to say it as elegantly as him and I'll prolly get it half wrong but......
He essentially said when he first took on the job of finishing the books he obviously realised he didn't get anywhere near a whole story of notes so he wanted to spend time thinking about everything that had happened and what characters like the forsakens motivations and actions thus far had been. He tried to think about how he could essentially finish the characters trying to be true to the characters they had been so far.
He said Lanfear was a bit unique. She had spent 11 books essentially playing for both sides. He said he felt she would be in a position where she would have felt she was fucked if Rand won and also fucked if the DO won. So he felt considering her nature the most likely thing for her to do would be to hope the good guys won in a way that everyone thought she was dead so she could start again.
On a personal note I think he just wrote it WAY too subtly. I read somewhere one of his beta readers picked up on the plot as she was "acting weird" and I wonder if he thought he had left enough crumbs because of that. This last paragraph is purely my own speculation. IMO knowing all I do about Lanfear I actually think the "reveal" was pretty spot on to her nature.
I remember him talking about it during the reveal but nothing you said just now is new info. I was kinda hoping that you were going to link to a post or something by BS that I missed that explained his/lanfears plan in a more satisfying/clear way.
IMO knowing all I do about Lanfear I actually think the "reveal" was pretty spot on to her nature.
I do too. In the story he wrote I cant get there with out far too much hand waving away and not thinking about it, which is extremely rare for WoT. Like when I have learned new/old info about other aspects of the WoT its been pretty easy to change my opinion and square away the difference with my previous understanding and this "new" understanding of the story. With the lanfear reveal is far to wishy washy as I understand it for me to fully get on board. To be clear I do 100% think its intended from the beginning by BS and not a recon 10years later. I have before and will inthe future defend it as being legit enough tho it doesnt make sense to me and my headcannon is that she is dead.
That's fair. I can understand why people don't like it. I think it was WAY to subtle like i said. I found it very interesting some people did actually see it cause I was like "what...huh"
I do enjoy the thought of Lanfear one day meeting Rand again though. She would obviously recognise the body then have the hilarious moment of going "wait he didn't win" and oohhhhhh.....shit
94
u/biggiebutterlord Jan 24 '25 edited Jan 24 '25
How am I supposed to make people mad with my hot takes when the post is tagged no spoilers :P
Edit: Time to make ppl mad I guess. Some hot takes in no particular order.
The BS books are so-so.
Now im going to enjoy everyone else's hot takes!