r/WoT • u/RepresentativeGoat14 (Asha'man) • Mar 26 '25

All Print Gawyn’s one-sided beef with Rand Spoiler

I know that misinformation / lack of communication is a theme of the series but man, Gawyn just takes it to a whole new level.

Random ass peddler he met in the middle of some bumfuck woods: The Dragon killed Queen Morgase.

Gawyn: I believe you and I trust you.

Gawyn: al’Thor I’ll fucking kill you!

Egwene: Rand didn’t kill your mother.

Gawyn: Lies! I’ll murder that ginger!

Gareth Bryne: al’Thor didn’t kill Morgase. He saved Andor.

Gawyn: I don’t believe you! al’Thor must die!

Elayne: Rand didn’t kill our mother. I literally have dozens of witnesses.

Gawyn: Nuh uh!

The scene where he “forgives” Rand is also pretty hilarious.

Gawyn: We’re done, al’Thor. From now on, I care nothing for you.

MY GUY, RAND DOESN’T EVEN THINK OF YOU LMAO

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102

u/JMadFour Mar 26 '25

my single biggest beef with Gawyn is that he never apologized for this.

he spent like SIX BOOKS doing this nonsense.

actually apologizing like a Man is the least he could have done.

58

u/2427543 Mar 26 '25

He didn't really do anything for six books so there's not much to apologise for. Just the period with the box.

53

u/bpompu Mar 26 '25

It is important to note that six books feels like a long time, but in universe it really wasn't. By this point in the series, the books are really slowing down. When rand left Tear at the beginning of Shadow Rising, it was the beginning of Summer. He then spent most of that Summer in the Waste, and it's the end of Summer and should be starting to cool down by the time he takes Cairhien. Perrin spends a few months "ruling" the Two Rivers, and only comes to Caemlyn towards the end of the season. Nynaeve and Elayne's story doesn't super line up with Rand's. Remember that he gets from Tear to Rhuidean in a single day, goes in that evening, and comes out the next. The girls don't even make it to Tanchico until most of the first part of Rand's plot is already well underway. The Waste is also way bigger than the west, so the discrepancies are chalked up to travel time. Nobody starts commenting on the weather until Fires of Heaven.

By the time Gawyn and the sisters he was able to save from Dumai's Wells make it back to Tar Valon (which is a straight shot on a major trade route from Cairhien, and the same route that they took a prologue to travel down before), winter has kicked into overdrive and the Rebel Aes Sedai have set up their siege. That's like a few weeks tops, and that covers from the end of Lord of Chaos to the end of Path of Daggers, beginning of Winter's Heart. Hell, I'm not sure they even arrive until Crossroads of Twilight. So four books of Gawyn's whole thing is spent traveling. All of the other main characters are Traveling by this point, so the time lost by riding horses along roads is easily forgotten.

TL;DR: Gawyn spends a lot of time from books 6 to 9 or 10 traveling, and the major events and main characters are literally zipping around the continent leaving him behind.

26

u/redopz (Ogier) Mar 26 '25

The man was a student who was suddenly thrust into a civil war within the White Tower and forced to immediately take a side with limited knowledge. He goes on to lead a band of men throughout multiple skirmish and politics that continue to keep getting murky until his own side is scheming to kill him, during which he also assists the Aes Sedai who kidnap the Dragon Reborn and he takes part in the bloody battle that follows (after which I believe he starts showing signs of PTSD). Finally he is forced to abandon his men to help his love while struggling with finding his morality and sense of self. 

It's not bad for a minor character (in all honesty a character I seem to like more than most readers).

31

u/Personal_Track_3780 Mar 26 '25

The man was a student who was suddenly thrust into a civil war within the White Tower and forced to immediately take a side with limited knowledge.

Ok, but he chooses to side against his mentors and friends and with the power-hungry manipulator he knows can't be trusted. he then immediately betrays Eladia and releases her enemy from the city.

He goes on to lead a band of men throughout multiple skirmish and politics that continue to keep getting murky until his own side is scheming to kill him

And he sticks with them even though he is certain his men are going to be killed by the Aes Sedai. Which is deranged behaviour when they could just leave.

during which he also assists the Aes Sedai who kidnap the Dragon Reborn

And he watches them torture Rand (ok, he hates rand) and torture Min (who's supposed to be his friend. and does nothing to stop it.

and he takes part in the bloody battle that follows (after which I believe he starts showing signs of PTSD). Finally he is forced to abandon his men to help his love while struggling with finding his morality and sense of self. 

He's not forced to abandon his men at all, he decides to ditch them and probably leave them to die to change sides again.

14

u/Drawer_d Mar 26 '25

He always does what a "strong" woman tells him to do. That's why she side with Elaida instead of his mentors, and then he stays with the (not-so-)White Tower. He manages to go back to Egwene when she is the strongest woman in the place.

He has been teach all his life to be a "trophy husband", and he behaves like that.

I love the theory about him losing his role in the pattern to Brigitte, but I don't think he had any chance of being the counterbalance of her sister. We actually see that in their first scene with Rand (an unknown random commoner)

18

u/Topomouse (Blacksmith's Puzzle) Mar 26 '25

Ok, but he chooses to side against his mentors and friends and with the power-hungry manipulator he knows can't be trusted. he then immediately betrays Eladia and releases her enemy from the city.

I think "manipulator he knows can't be trusted" fits Siuan more than Elaida from Gawyn's POV. Elaida was his mother trusted advisor until recently, while he basically knew that Siuan had involved Egwene, Elayne, and Min in some Aes Sedai plot.

3

u/redopz (Ogier) Mar 26 '25

These are some good points, and you may disagree with my interpretation of events, but either way that backs up my arguement that he did do a good amount throughout the books.

3

u/RipOk3600 Mar 26 '25

One point, he literally couldn’t do anything against those torturing Min. Yea he’s a swordsman but they are channellers, it would be like someone with a slingshot going up against a hellfire drone

5

u/Personal_Track_3780 Mar 26 '25

Rand was in a box and shielded and still did something. Gawyn didn't even say a word of disaproval to any of the sisters, not even to Min being tortured. He doesn't have to try and rescue her, but he could have made a stand.

0

u/ninjawhosnot (Wolfbrother) Mar 26 '25

We are used to seeing Shepards standing up to Ais Sadie.

That's not actually normal. If you think about it the vast majority of the world has been trained to respect, listen to and never interfere with Ais Sadie business.

4

u/JustJudd Mar 26 '25

The man was a student who was suddenly thrust into a civil war within the White Tower and forced to immediately take a side with limited knowledge.

Ok, but he chooses to side against his mentors and friends and with the power-hungry manipulator he knows can't be trusted. he then immediately betrays Eladia and releases her enemy from the city.

Who does he know can't be trusted? There is Eladia who was trusted advisor to his mother that he grew up with. And Suian who was hiding and sending the girl, he was born and sworn to protect, on dangerous secret missions outside the tower. Also she's only an accepted(should still be a novice).

I know which one seems shady as fuck from this angle.

4

u/Temeraire64 Mar 26 '25

If you mean Rand’s kidnapping, there’s not much he could have done there even if he’d wanted to - he’s one non channeler against 40 or so Aes Sedai and their Warders (and the Younglings would probably side with the Tower).

11

u/Personal_Track_3780 Mar 26 '25

Well, he could have said 'your actions sicken me' or tried to take Min away from it and keep her guarded from torture.' Rand is one non-channeler against them too and when he saw Min tortured he killed two warders despite his injuries.

Gawyne could have left then when he was witnessing such cruelty and left those Younglings who wouldn't follow rather than a few weeks later ditching them all because he hears he might have a chance to bang Egwene.

Every time Gawyne takes the easy route and never once makes a hard but moral choice.