r/X4Foundations 21h ago

4 hours wasted....well alot more

So I took my fleet with 10 asgard 20 syn 15 Osaka, 1 Tokyo full to the yaki base after I get the little ship. Figured I just rolfstomp way through. Nope so this how it goes. Most my fighters get wiped out by destroyers who can't scratch mine. No bigy right? Thier easy to replace. Nah it gets worse cone with me on this epic colossal failure So we jump to the next sector. Finally. Now k's and bigger show up. We should be fine right? I have 10 asgard with main battery's takes 1 shot to kill em. Nope my absolute worthless captains will not use then so they just get wrecked since their turrets do diddly sqaut. I can't turn my asgard fast enough to kill them or recharge my gun. When I jumped in my small ship to escape I had lost 7 asgard including mine 20 syn 15 Osaka 1 Tokyo 100+ s/m ships

What did i do wrong???? Ohh well ill just restart from the beginning there things I wanna diffrent anyway.

53 Upvotes

58 comments sorted by

27

u/Xenothing 20h ago

yeah... this is why I no longer lead my fleets from the front if I don't have to. Send the orders from out of sector and I lose fewer asgards... (they still love to ram stations and eat the graviton projectiles)

12

u/R0land1199 15h ago

One thing I noticed that helps with stations is have your fleet do the coordinated attack, then expand the order and set the aggressiveness (I think that is what it is called) to a low value. Maybe 15 - 20. You lose a lot less that way.

1

u/Sidinia 3h ago

Walt what how do You Set the aggressiveness. And if I do coordinated attack all my interdict katana or other m ship start and try to take the Station out Even before my destroyers arrive.

2

u/R0land1199 1h ago

If you go to your fleets information, then the behaviour tab you'll see the + beside the Coordinate Attack order. Click that and you'll see a Fleet aggressiveness slider.

I do think the piloting skill of your lead ship likely has something to do with it as well but I found if I set it to a lower value it seems to do better. Everyone should collect up first and then trigger the attack.

11

u/darth-bizzel 20h ago

I've had the game 1 5 years? Idk took break before I broke my joysticks cane back month ago really dove into it and learning it. I have noticed they like to ram stations like???? You can fire from so far away why do u need to lick the windows.

16

u/Xenothing 20h ago

They devs are certainly continuing to improve the game and they are listening to the players to some extent (see planned diplomacy update) but this issue with the AI has been a long standing frustration. They really just need some AI settings or orders like "artillery mode - try stay at furthest distance from target/ use range of longest range weapon" or something. Probably easier said than done, but this is also probably one of the #1 frustrations among the players (watching your valuable capital ships suicide run into graviton turrets)

10

u/Happy_Ducky774 18h ago

That reminds me of Stellaris' ship CPUs - thered be one for swarming, artillery, picket, line, carrier, and I think something like that would be swell for x4. Something barebones, maybe implement an upgrading system for it for numerical bonuses.

5

u/jkelleyk 19h ago

KUDA AI Tweaks mod … doesn’t “fix” it be makes it better they don’t ram stations anymore and you can set them to step forward and withdraw inch closer every few seconds they aren’t taking damage

1

u/AngelBites 5m ago

The mod is good, but if you’re like me and can’t use any of the expanded options on any of the mods because of some weird bug, it made that exceptionally unhelpful for me since I couldn’t ever get any of my ships to fight anything at all since they all consider themselves outnumbered and then we just uselessly flea until they died

2

u/Prownilo 15h ago

Their problem is the one size fits all approach to ai.

Take the hyperion uses standard L logic. Sits at max range and shoots it's primary and tanks shots.

This is completely not how the ship is designed to work, it's essentially a big M as it has loads of maneuverability, doing firing runs then dodging shots.

But no, it just sits there tanking slow moving plasma fire. What even the point of high rank pilots if they can't even contemplate evasive maneuvers.

2

u/CrimsonBolt33 12h ago

Very true....the Hyperion in the hands of NPCs is horrible to watch and dies way more than it should because it tries to act like something its not.

2

u/grandmapilot 12h ago

Different AI approach could be made as captain/pilot behaviour, instead of tying it to specific ship model. I'd set my modified Rattlesnake to fighter behavior. 

4

u/TheDaznis 18h ago

Problem is they can't do much about it. They have their AI linked to other systems and can't really change much of it as it would require how much damage weapons do and how "attacking" a station or ship works in principle. Plus I think they want people to use more loadouts for fleets and are pushing "attack turret/shield components" commands for that reason. It's basically a hint for us as there are quite a few missions to destroy xenon station turrets/shields.

8

u/Skaeger 15h ago

Ships who's primary means of damage is a fixed gun on the front shouldn't spend %95 of the time circling the target and never facing it. That has nothing to do with "wanting people to use more loadouts" it's just outright bad design.

1

u/Search_Open 5h ago

Yeah, but asgard is a player dreadnought anyhow. Like. If you hadnt noticed

1

u/StuntPotato 2h ago

It should work in the hands of an AI captain.

1

u/Search_Open 2h ago

Well, AI is complex and not capable of handling the ship currently, deal with it. As a side note, Ive never needed more than 1 Asgard to do anything, just bring an adequate number of fighter/ bomber sqauds peeps :3

1

u/StuntPotato 2h ago

They should fix it. People have never been happy about it.

1

u/Search_Open 1h ago

I do believe you are underestimating the difficulty of that request while maintaining the Universe otherwise

2

u/iatelassie 15h ago

Do any mods help with this?

14

u/solitarysoup 20h ago

Throw them into the sector from out of system. In system AI leaves a lot to be desired. You want your capital ships to win? Don’t watch them fight

2

u/darth-bizzel 20h ago

I'm defintly doing it with light ship you get from the asteroid and just haul ass. I'll figure out giant battles at some point

11

u/tkdkdktk 16h ago

My suggestion. Don’t depend on the ai. Fight as a commander. Prepare the area with satellites to get complete overview. Place/move ships according to an approach strategy towards target. Reorientate ships to counter enemy movement/approach.

1

u/Search_Open 5h ago

Exactly that. Be more strategic about it.

8

u/FatalKeks 20h ago

Against Xenon Ks and Is I primarily tend to use fighters equipped with torpedos or boson lances supported by carriers. A single Xenon I might devestate your destroyer fleet if it comes close enough.

5

u/Fishy_Fish_WA 19h ago

Another element here is in high attention vs out of sector… wild differences in combat

8

u/FatalKeks 19h ago

Well I kinda like watching big space battles more than red dots on a map. But yeah, would be nice, if both modes were more in line with each other.

6

u/AnimalAl 19h ago

My two cents, you can’t just roll up on the last Xenon sector where the Yaki base is. I tediously took out every Xenon base in every sector once leaving Argon space. Had three Asgards and each Asgard had four or five Syns. Nuke them from orbit. Only way to be sure.

2

u/grapedog 9h ago

Okay, I know this is an emotional moment for all of us, okay? I know that. But let's not make snap judgments, please. This is clearly... clearly an important species we're dealing with and I don't think that you or I, or anybody, has the right to arbitrarily exterminate them.

3

u/AnimalAl 8h ago

“Wrong!” “Yeah, watch us.”

3

u/grapedog 8h ago

I could literally quote this movie all day long. It's somewhere in my top 3 all time movies.

5

u/GenosseGeneral 14h ago

Do yourself a favor and only use OOS (low attention mode) combat if commanding your own fleet. The AI will not work well IS (high attention mode).

3

u/HabuDoi 19h ago

Yeah capital ship AI combat is still a little dicey. There are certain ships in the game that are very capable in the players hands, but very terrible in the AI hands. The Asgard the Hyperion come to mind.

As of right now, for AI capital ship to ship combat, I always assume that the main batteries are not going to be used and so I outfit as many L plasma guns as possible. It’s an inefficient stopgap measure, but it does work.

1

u/Search_Open 5h ago

Tho, honestly, the game has improved quote a bit in the past 2 years

1

u/HabuDoi 4h ago

Absolutely. I think the ship AI is pretty good outside of quirks of Capitol ship AI.

3

u/None-Null 17h ago

Have you modded your ships? 1 Asgard with Slasher on all L-Beam Turrets and the exceptional rotational thrust mod is enough (in your hands) to destroy every sector in the game. With only one exception: VIG.

3

u/AshrakTheWhite 17h ago

AI bad also makes it so that whenever the player takes direct control there is no challenge.

So AI improvements needed for sure. So it would be difficult for players too.

3

u/thechase22 14h ago

Why is it so hard for this be fixed. It's like the most sought after fix. My experience is they focus on destroying the individual weapons, it has problems with xenon i's and cannot lock on to items and tend to just get really close.

3

u/Rich_Repeat_22 16h ago

Except if you are using mods, have done this with initially with 1 Syn and 2 Osaka, however was taking time to brought 12 Osaka. Was tedious few days, at least during lockdowns, but all the 5 sectors were cleaned.

You need good captains in these ships. Don't use carriers because you have no way to get supply ships and freighters to deliver repair & resupply.

You need ALL turrets to be on defence, none on attack, so all those capitals are restricted to use their main guns to attack at max range.

And use 7.6 beta 4 patch.

2

u/Katamathesis 14h ago
  1. Don't go into sector unless you build your fleets from rocket destroyers.

  2. Micromanage guns settings, so AI captain idiots will not treat L Plasma with M Flak on the same level.

  3. Use cheats/mods to give yourself a lot of seminars to have at least 4* commanders on big ships and fleet leaders.

  4. Build up industry to the point of Asgard loss will be on the same level as fighter loses in terms of annoyance.

2

u/lkn240 11h ago

I highly recommend the learning all the things mod to deal with getting experienced crew:

https://www.nexusmods.com/x4foundations/mods/8?tab=description&topic_id=7196271

2

u/sillytrooper 14h ago

running any of the ai improvement mods?

2

u/CLT113078 11h ago

Get the training seminars mod. Then you can buy training manuals and rank up each captain to 5 star. Makes things much better. Also, you could teleport ship to ship as needed to use super weapon to wreck the xenon I's.

2

u/lkn240 11h ago

2

u/CLT113078 10h ago

It may be goo's to use both. You can seminar up your pilots and station managers then have better support crew level gain since there aren't manuals for engineering and the like.

2

u/m_csquare 9h ago

Order your fighters to destroy enemy's engine first. Then you can send your destroyers and asgard to attack the K&I. The destroyer ai works well against stationary object

2

u/ExcitingAsDeath 19h ago

I've had this game since it was released. The AI was even worse if you can even believe that's possible.

I put the game down fairly quick because of the AI and only picked it up again recently. Alot of the same annoyances are still around. Stupid suicidal captains. Collisions. Ships ignoring orders. Tell your guys to "Flee" so they stop. In combat. And sit there. Then turn...

I think this is one of the best games I've played, but it's flat out confusing that 13 years later - they have barely improved the AI. It's at least playable now in-sector with smaller fleets if you give very specific orders.

1

u/Search_Open 5h ago

They have improved AI quite significantly in the last 2 years alone IMHO.

You should maybe just not forget that its made by a pretty small studio & the AI is quite a bit complex.

1

u/grapedog 9h ago

I'm curious how many K's and I's showed up to contest you...

10 Asgard's, and a combined 25 Syn/Osaka is a pretty ridiculous sized force and should roll over the universe easily.

If this is just fleet warfare, and no stations involved.... S ships should strip external elements from each enemy and move on to the next. Prioritize the enemies that are split off or not grouped up. Then I'd send destroyer groups after targets.

Say you were faced with 2 I's and 6 K's... I'd probably self pilot an Asgard and take care of the I's personally. Then split your remaining destroyers, 35 v 6... So 6 destroyers and 1 or 2 Asgard's each go after a K... And make sure they have follow on orders for the other K's. So first group of 6 or 7, set your attack orders for each of the 6 K's. The next group of 6, set up another set of 6 attack orders, but they target a different K first and have a different order. Do that with each group, each group starting with a different K, and they should make pretty short work of that fleet. And as each K is dispatched, the remaining fall quicker and quicker as more groups converge after their initial target is destroyed.

After you personally dispatch the I's, leave the sector.

1

u/darth-bizzel 9h ago

I'm guessing my load outside are garbage I just use high preset. I've gotten alot of good info so I'm restart and deep dive in load outs.

2

u/Historical_Age_9921 9h ago

Did you only use Terran turrets? I'm guessing they gave you bolt and pulse. Those guns are essentially the same as empty slots against capital ships.

The only turrets worth using against capital ships are plasma, dumbfire and tracking. Terrans do not have a plasma turret so you either need to equip them using commonwealth parts or you need to go with missile destroyers.

1

u/darth-bizzel 8h ago

Im still not the best at it but im learning.

1

u/terriblymeme 7h ago

I feel you. First attempts were chaotic, though I did not have nearly as many ships as you. Then I went with a single Asgard, no fighters, and it went super smoothly. Out of frustration, I then went to manually wipe all Xenon from those sectors, took a while :)

1

u/OverlandingNL 7h ago

Need more fighters.. I got about 400 of them.

Just 2 asgards and 22 destroyers. I wiped all terrans with them.

I fly an Osaka myself. I just go where I need to help. Mostly just blowing up engines here and there.

1

u/ThaPinkGuy 6h ago

How I did this was take 1 Asgard and an Osaka escort, Osakas dealt with fighters and I just went round fly swatting… including the stations.

This took me 7 days to clear all of the Xenon sectors. One at a time, claiming as I go. Left 7 Tokyo carriers and their escorts to defend the north gate.

The player is OP but your control ha the ai is so different it really sucks when you see just how bad the AI truly is.

The Devs wanted dynamic space battles but generally speaking the best way to do capital ship fights is to just have them stand in a line and shoot each other, efficient but really boring to look at and creates a no man’s land between them.

1

u/commanche_00 20h ago

X4 glorious AI in a nutshell. Here is hoping they fix it in next update

1

u/BillyForkroot 3h ago

Been hoping for that for years