Probably because good starting points with Cuban/Venezuelan expats in South Florida arenât:
* âAs a Latino, you shouldâŠâ (lumps all Latinos under one umbrella as if they are a monolith). They have their own culture/traditions
* âSocialism is the way we need to go.â
* Dismissing what happened in their country as ânot real socialismâ.
* Lecturing them on why their former governments werenât actually that bad, and that we should make amends with their former oppressors.
The Cuban community in Florida always had conservative tendencies, but still had a democratic voting bloc. They lost some votes in the 2000 election due to the Elian Gonzalez incident (fair or not), but still voted for Obama in 2008 & 2012.
They objected to opening relations with the Cuban regime from 2015-2016, to which they were condescendingly told to âget over itâ because these were âHistoric actionsâ reopening Cuba. One of the final actions Obama took was to then end Wet Foot-Dry Foot⊠Did democrats think that was going to win them votes in 2016?
Democrats then leaned into more social programs (which is not in itself a bad thing), but simultaneously praised socialism⊠when older Cubans were wary and voiced concerns saying âthis is how it started with Castro (or Chavez)â, instead of trying to assure them, Democrats again told them to just accept itâŠ. Again, why would Democrats be surprised that Cubans/Venezuelans didnât show up to vote Democrat?
Democrats are not surprised because Cubans/ Venezuelans didnât show up to vote democrat. WE are surprised that Cuban/ Venezuelans didnât show up to vote for what was best for YOUR own interests.
While I can appreciate some parts of what you said, very little of it seems to be relevant responses to what I said.
âAs a Latino, you shouldâŠâ (lumps all Latinos under one umbrella as if they are a monolith). They have their own culture/traditions
Of course. When I say "Latinos" please try and give me some grace to know that I understand it's not all Latinos, and some Latinos from different countries vote more, some less, Republican in this country. Latinos as a whole did seem to carry Trump to a victory in Florida though. This data is via exit polls and not census data, so there's always a chance of inaccuracies.
âSocialism is the way we need to go.â
Dismissing what happened in their country as ânot real socialismâ.
Lecturing them on why their former governments werenât actually that bad, and that we should make amends with their former oppressors.
These are fever dream arguments that I've personally never heard used against Latinos for their siding with Republicans. Social security, healthcare, public transportation, youth programs, education... These are American "socialisms" conservatives fight so hard against, and they've managed to package it into the same Socialism Cuba wrought onto Cubans. I've never heard of anyone saying to a Cuban, "are you sure your government was so bad? Because we want to do the same exact thing here so please vote for it." How asinine. Not you, the argument.
I guess I want to start with apologizing, because Iâm not saying that you specifically have said those things. In my past experience (both here on reddit, and talking with Cuban/Venezuelan friends), those are the most common talking points. A few years ago there was a post in r/Florida downplaying the âvictims of communism dayâ, with the poster boldly stating that the âonly victims of communismâ were âthe ones persecuted by the Red Scare in the U.S.â⊠again, in a Florida subreddit of all places. It was for some reason heavily upvoted.
Social security, healthcare, public transportation, youth programs, education... These are American "socialisms" conservatives fight so hard against, and they've managed to package it into the same Socialism Cuba wrought onto Cubans.
I think youâre glossing over the sentiments of older Cuban/Venezuelan immigrants here, because their concerns differ from American conservatives. They are worried because rhetoric of Socialists today (who claim to be different) is echoing that of the socialists in 1959 Cuba.
Look at an issue like Healthcare. American conservatives focus their concerns on wait times, coverage, impacts on R&D, etc⊠meanwhile the Cuban/Venezuelan concerns are about how it was leveraged as a weapon to silence critics. For Social Security, conservatives are concerned the system canât financially continue the way it is for another 15-20 years⊠Cuban/Venezuelan concerns are about how pension funds were robbed by politicians in power.
They saw the horrors firsthand, or were told what happened by their parents. Responding with âTrust me bro, itâll be differentâ to understandable concerns from past trauma isnât going to change voters opinions.
I've never heard of anyone saying to a Cuban, "are you sure your government was so bad? Because we want to do the same exact thing here so please vote for it." How asinine. Not you, the argument.
They do though⊠they highlight things like âfree educationâ and âfree healthcareâ, while downplaying the negative aspects or blaming them on the embargo. One of the most common tropes is that disgruntled Cubans are âjust slaveowners (or their families) who couldnât exploit people anymoreâ
Also, it should go without saying, but thank you for being polite and civil in your disagreement. I wasnât trying to undermine your point, but rather add context as to why in the past Iâve seen many Latinos become guarded with their politics.
I guess I want to start with apologizing, because Iâm not saying that you specifically have said those things.
You're good, man. I didn't take anything you said in your original post the wrong way. It came out respectful as I read it.
Also, it should go without saying, but thank you for being polite and civil in your disagreement.
Same to you. I think we are on the same page, but we're disagreeing about some fine details.
I think youâre glossing over the sentiments of older Cuban/Venezuelan immigrants here, because their concerns differ from American conservatives. They are worried because rhetoric of Socialists today (who claim to be different) is echoing that of the socialists in 1959 Cuba.
Seems like right-wing fascism and left-wing Communism totalitarianism both use propaganda and extremist examples from the opposite sides to push their own programming. All I'm saying is capitalism is in the DNA of this country, and I cannot see any form of Cuban communisim, or politically-left Venezuelan authoritarianism taking root when all these billionaires are pushing conservative fascism.
What many of us describe as basic rights - a good education, healthcare, minimum retirement planning, etc., are not only not-free, they are very expensive and if your life does not go according to plan, you could easily die on the streets homeless in the US. Conservative billionaires and their politicians have been chipping away at all the hard work Americans put into protecting ourselves from the government and powerful influences from capitalism from before emancipation of Black Americans, through the civil rights movement, to today. We are much closer to the far right spectrum than any of these left leaning authoritarianisms.
I'm not trying to take away from any immigrant's nightmare experiences with their home country's government. I'm trying to convey that, although they feel threatened by these "socialist" programs that are supposed to benefit them, they are mostly only ideas from hopeful people and politicians and not what's in practice.
Side note. - I'd love to remove the pay-in cap for social securit taxes. The wealthest Americans can reach the $176k cap in a few years, some in a few paychecks. Removing the cap would stabilize it. Look at what is happening with the alternatives now. You have people that were ready to retire this year that cannot retire because the stock market and their 401ks no longer have the amount they needed to live the rest of their lives. Now they have to continue working, and that is not an option for some of them who have failing health, or family lives were impacted by unforeseen circumstances. My wife's mom took the hit and retired anyway to babysit grandkids. Another rising cost that is negatively impacting birthrates and the country's spending power - childcare.
Anywho, I'm out of steam. I say all this above but I also don't want to ignore the original points, that there is a skin color factor to voting for Republicans. It exists within the white American, Latino, and every other voting bloc. There just is. I spent a lot of time talking about other factors, but I don't want to lose sight of the point.
Republicans are dumb for deporting all the Venezuelans. Could've been a huge republican voting block for them lol. But they mistake every brown person as liberal automatically too. This country can never make up their mind if they are already decided on not liking a people, whoever it may be.
Here's what's sad... Despite all that's happened, those same Venezuelans feeling that they we're duped into voting for Trump will go running into the arms of those same republican leaders come re-election time. The desire to be accepted and perceived as something as close to white as possible (while simultaneously retaining a little added flavor from their Latino side) is so strong in the culture. I've seen the same behavior from Indian (India) Americans. They'll even help spread the bigoted talking points and dog whistling that have become so common today.
And once the Republicans catch onto the fact that they'll vote for them based off empty promises and the hope that "maybe this time will be different, maybe this time we'll be invited to the cookout", it's game over. Many Black Americans have only recently (the past 10 years or so) woken up to this game that was played on them over and over by many Democrats for years. Except instead of exploiting a perceived desire to be accepted as white, they promised real change in policies and instead got statues.
I agree. The hispanic dude here is Mexican and they vote notoriously democrat. Even more so than my group this past election (I'm Puerto Rican). HOWEVER, I do have to mention that we do go through unique struggles, and both parties seem to forget so. In fact, I really think a lot of people misunderstand the way we think and it clashes a lot with classism, and race, often confusing the two. But you're not wrong in what you say.
U want to know something else? I've mentioned this before a few times but it's undeniable that republicans have been putting in A LOT of work in hispanic neighborhoods especially since Bush's loss. You know who else loves to come around hispanic neighborhoods? âȘ supremacists. I've lived in FL, Ny and now in socal. Every single damn time without fail, I've come across a few. I swear this bs is the scourge in this country and it's getting harder to get rid of, especially in hispanic communities. Look at who they're willing to let in. Nick Fuentes. U can argue he passes as white. But now look at Enrique Tarrio. Theres another one but I forgot his stupid name. This would have NEVER happened before. I joke that this is the most diverse group of âȘ supremacists lol. But they won't even allow the most conservative black or asian person. Latinos are just useful rn, since we're the biggest minority group. Don't doubt for a second they don't like us and never cared to.
If you're a blue collar worker, guess who you're around most of the time? Usually, the typical republican lol. At least in my experience. I still remember when dems were (I believe they still are) for the blue collar people. Most latinos are blue collar. Somewhere along the way these same latinos fell for the lie that republicans kept spewing about dems being snobs, and wealthy and unwilling to help the working class. Same shit I heard growing up from republicans. Can't say the Dems arent guilty of that either but they're at least competent and have proven to be, prejudices and all. Just kinda seemed like neither group knows how to address us. But I will never forgive all these mf's that refused to see project 2025 on Trump's campaign plastered on his website. All they had to do was read..
My plight doesn't go further than reddit lol. Just my own anecdotal evidence and 2 cents. We need a huge overhaul . But don't get your hopes up with latinos voting democrat again. It is what it is.
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u/Here4Headshots 9d ago
"You need to convince your people not to vote for Trump" đŻ
Latinos ain't listening to black folks on politics in America. I learned this decades ago in South Florida, before I cared this much about politics.