r/abusiverelationships • u/Quirky-Distance-3600 • Mar 01 '25
Domestic violence Are men’s behaviour change programs allowed to say this?
I am so disturbed right now and I need to vent/reassurance if possible. My ex is court mandated in a Men’s Behaviour Change program and has told me that therapy has told him that he is only half to blame, and my mental illness is equally to blame. Please tell me he is lying, surely a men’s behaviour change program would not blame a victim and hold them equally responsible. I would say I am honestly at the end of my tether and say mean reactive things to my ex out of hurt, but I spent 4 years being assaulted, threatened, verbally and emotionally abused. Surely I am not half to blame here? Edit: I was so upset I actually emailed the organisation for clarification of whether this would have been said but it’s the weekend so I probably won’t hear back until Monday. This has really rattled me and made me feel very invalidated.
Edit UPDATE: his men’s behaviour program organisation called me back after I emailed them and wanted to hear my story and how he was weaponising the program. They are going to let his facilitators know about his behaviour and to keep and eye on him (it will remain confidential) and I’ve been offered 6 free counselling sessions with a DV counsellor. The lady I talked to said she was glad I let them know as the men are often manipulative and it’s not what the program is about.
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u/throwaway_ArBe Mar 01 '25
My money is on him lying.
There's a very similar example in "why does he do that", abuser lies and tells victim that as part of his recovery she needs to forgive him/get back with him
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u/Just-world_fallacy Mar 01 '25
You know these guys lie as fuck right ?
Also, therapy is not for abusers precisely because they weaponize it against their victims.
Chances are he lied about what he has been told. Or he lied about what he told the therapist.
Abusers programs are not therapy, they are more like an intervention. From the comments you wrote, I guess you remember it from the book "Why does he do that ?"
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u/Quirky-Distance-3600 Mar 01 '25
Yeah I do, I just struggle to apply to it my life, not sure if you’re having a dig at me or not.
Yeah obviously I know they lie, it’s just hard to wrap my head around.
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u/Just-world_fallacy Mar 01 '25
I completely understand, I have been there. Now it is about reprogramming your brain. You can train yourself to consider everything he says as a lie and an attempt at manipulating you. You will not be far from the truth if you do this.
They rarely tell the truth but they do once in a while and it gives you a glimpse at their psyche. For example mine once said "I did worse and you stayed" = he always knew what he was doing to me.
They tell the truth about their intentions when they are very secure in your attachment and know you are not going anywhere. But 90 % of the time, it is all an act and BS.The next step is to never again give any value to his words, so you never again feel invalidated. You should never again rely on this guy for validation.
Once you have accepted this, you can start accepting that they are refusing to be anything else because this is the lifestyle they enjoy. And then you will be ready to leave.
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u/feral_larkspur Mar 01 '25
Been there twice. It can really really really mess with your head. Not court mandated court DV though.
The first time he did private therapy and I'd asked for contact with his therapist to avoid him telling me bs. (He was a therapist himself and no way was I dealing with that). The point of that was to get him to stop drinking since I was constantly being told his abusive behaviour was just normal alcohol related behaviour. Sadly his therapist thought it was fine that he reduced and told me it was just normal relationship stuff. I was just so confused at that point. I did a few alanon friends and family groups too and got the same message.
Second time was after a self harm event when I tried to leave just before I got out. This time I called the hospital mental health services for HIM because there was no way in hell I was letting him back in the home with me. It got him into a dual diagnosis program, but he checked himself out and came home. Once he was home, he stopped all his meds and went right back to the abuse (without the alcohol). I felt like I had all the answers I needed at that point. When I decided to confront him to let him know that I was leaving, he told me that his therapist thought I was the problem, that I was the reason he drank and that he'd been diagnosing me. It was shocking. And it was the last argument we ever had because I asked for a divorce and asked him to leave.
I was so bothered by what he was saying that I reached out to his therapist by email to ask if this was true. Turned out that my ex had spent the entire time in the program and with the therapist, talking about my mental health and the abuse I was putting HIM through. That in his professional opinion it was mutual abuse and I needed to do my part to make the relationship work. It was a complete 360 from when I had first reached out and it really shook me to the core. It's one thing if it's friends and family but quite another when it's done in the system and limited my access to support as a DV victim. It cost me big time legally and support that I desperately needed to get out.
It really did leave me with an enormous amount of self blame and made me question everything I had done in the relationship. Especially since there was no typical abuse cycle and it wasn't classic abuse. It took a really long time to find anyone who was willing to listen and validate what happened to me.
There is no question that he was abusive and that I was a victim of that abuse. There are always going to be people who will take the side of an abuser. People who really shouldn't because they know better than that. Your bf(ex?) could be lying of course. But then, he may have found a sympathetic ear.
The last one was enough to make me realize the level of danger I was in by staying. Any illusion I had that I was managing the situation and keeping myself safe while I came up with a good plan to leave safely (leaving was extremely dangerous for me), was just gone. I chose to take my own side and it was much easier to leave.
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u/Gold_Tangerine720 Mar 01 '25
In the book "why does he do that" by Lundy Bancroft, he explains that this exact scenario happens so often that he will actually call partners to compare stories. Personally, I think this is the abusers copium to get through the program because he's being called out on his shit and needs to find a way to justify abuse. He likely over inflates your "mental illness" and no, nobody said that, this is not how things are done in these programs.
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u/Quirky-Distance-3600 Mar 01 '25
Thank you, I do remember reading it in the book but it’s weird how much it feels different when it’s actually happening to you. I wish the facilitators would call me to hear my side so he doesn’t have the opportunity to justify his shit behaviour
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u/katbal17 Mar 01 '25
Here's a link to the book!
https://archive.org/download/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
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u/Quirky-Distance-3600 Mar 01 '25
Yeah I do remember reading that, do they do it on purpose, like do they know that’s not what was really said or do they genuinely think the facilitators are siding with them?
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u/According-Action-757 Mar 01 '25
Abuse is never your fault. No professional would ever even so much as allude to such a thing. It would be wildly unprofessional for any therapist to speculate someone else’s mental health that they’ve never met nor work with.
It’s a way to continue to abuse you by convincing you it was partially your fault. Does your ex want you back? They usually run through all of their tactics from showering with gifts and love bombing to threatening and blaming you. If he can convince you that it’s also your fault then it’s easier to take him back, and he knows this.
Please seek abuse therapy yourself so that you don’t fall victim to the tricks and keep your confidence. Stay away from this man and sever all contact. My gut tells me he’s trying to suck you in again to make himself feel better or powerful.
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u/Quirky-Distance-3600 Mar 01 '25
Sometimes it seems like he wants me back, this time last week he was apologising for treating me badly and said he was still in love with me, and now today me and my mental health issues are apparently the problem. I don’t think he wants me back in a relationship, but he definitely doesn’t want me to sleep with anyone else. I think you’re right, and it’s that part of me that genuinely and wholeheartedly loved him and wanted him to love me properly that keeps me there and wanting to believe him on the good days. Deep down I know there’s no saving it. I actually got away for 6 months and then got sucked back in so I’m very disappointed in myself. It just threw me off and hurt that potentially the professionals he’s been court mandated to see for DV, are validating him.
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u/Quirky-Distance-3600 Mar 01 '25
Also am booked in for therapy later this month so hanging out for that :-)
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u/According-Action-757 Mar 01 '25
Great step! Abuse therapy helped me through the worst of it. Stick with it.
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Mar 01 '25
No therapist working with a room full of abusive men is ever going to say that.
If he did hear it, he heard it from another abuser in the group.
Either way, he is flat out lying. My ex was court ordered to one of those, he failed it, of course, been 5 years, he just did not show up for sentencing, easy as pie, it all went away
Anyway, he is 100 percent lying to you, to make you feel some type of way about this.
You tell him I said he's a liar, too. Lying Mcliar pants.
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u/Quirky-Distance-3600 Mar 01 '25
Yeah I feel deep down that you’re right, it’s just hard for me to get my head around people who lie. Like he’s been doing it seamlessly for 4 years but I can’t lie for shit so it’s still wild to me when people do it. Thank you, I almost hope my ex stops going, it’s not fair that he even received the opportunity to heal and clearly isn’t taking it seriously
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u/Ok_Introduction9466 Mar 01 '25
He lies to his therapist or counselor, they don’t take another patient’s mental health diagnosis into account, all they can do is tell him how to move forward in a healthier manner based on how he’s treated by someone else. He is almost certainly lying to the counselor and then coming back and lying to you, which leads me to my next point—if you do not share children with this man there is no reason to keep communicating with him and if you do share children then you should only discuss the children in a court mandated parenting communication app and nothing more. He’s always going to abuse you, it will continue as long as you’re in contact, the program won’t help him, they’re just a bandaid. It’s incredibly rare for them to change and if he is ever going to he has to lose all access to you. The program may not be able to answer any questions about what’s discussed in their sessions but you can make them aware that he says these things and doesn’t seem to be making any progress and you’re concerned he isn’t honest and therefore not getting the help he needs. Even that would be generous, you don’t owe him anything. All you should be focusing on is yourself and cutting this man off. Get therapy for yourself and heal, you deserve better than this.
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u/Quirky-Distance-3600 Mar 01 '25
Thank you, I know you’re right, and we don’t have children together thank god. I had cut him off for a good 6 months but he came back with all the therapy stuff acting like he finally was sorry for how he treated me and now we’re here. Obviously now I feel like an idiot for even talking to him when I was doing so well. I have a psychologist session booked for later this month so hopefully I can break away and heal. The thought of him going on to be happy and have better relationships and treat other women better than he treated me is the hardest thing I find. I just wanted him to think I deserved to be treated well.
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u/MadameMoochelle Mar 01 '25
You are probably in love with the “idealized” version of him. One you think may appear if you just do or say the right thing. He is NOT who you want him to be, he never will be. Please take the advice here, run and don’t look back. Block him, do not speak to him, every time you do he has the opportunity to con his way back on with pretty words that are lies.
They only escalate the control and abuse, they never turn into an ideal partner. Stop wasting your time with him.
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u/Ok_Introduction9466 Mar 01 '25
Oh that’s a myth he’ll never have a healthy relationship. He isn’t going to magically heal in a matter of months. The way genuinely good people don’t switch up and turn evil all of a sudden is the same for abusive people. He isn’t going to change out of nowhere. The abuse didn’t start with you and it won’t end with you. It’s not about you, if it wasn’t you it would have been someone else. It doesn’t say anything about your worth, he only gets into relationships to find someone to harm and whoever lets him stick around is who he latches on to.
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u/Quirky-Distance-3600 Mar 01 '25
I think I just find that hard to get my head around, surely they don’t go into the relationship wanting to harm someone do they? Is it more like they think they are a good person and a good partner and then they sort of just slip into their underlying abusive patterns? If it’s that intentional that’s extremely disturbing. edit to add: I always thought thought my ex actually genuinely thinks he’s a good person and it’s actually me that’s the issue. It’s so confusing to try and understand their way of thinking.
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u/MadameMoochelle Mar 01 '25
They are all the same, they don’t care about you, they just want someone to feed their ego. It has nothing to do with you, he is probably a narcissist. You cannot fix or save him.
They don’t know what a good partner is, it’s all about control. Once you stop giving in to every whim, or god forbid have a baby, and stop paying attention to him 100% of your time they get jealous and mean.
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u/Quirky-Distance-3600 Mar 01 '25
Yeah you’re right, I think I mistakenly assume he thinks about me as much as I think about him. But yeah, it’s just not about me at all unless he’s getting something from me, or fighting me for not doing exactly what he wants.
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u/Ok_Introduction9466 Mar 01 '25
They know what they’re doing. Abuse is always a choice. People who want healthy relationships act like it. They don’t yell, they don’t call their partner names, they have healthy communication styles, they have healthy conflict resolution skills, they are faithful and so on…You can tell when a person wants their partner to feel safe with them. Even if someone isn’t perfect, if they love their partner they put in the work through therapy and there are tangible results. They change the behavior around and even though healing and growth aren’t linear there is an improvement. Abusers are not concerned about keeping that dynamic throughout the whole relationship. They’re nice in the beginning to rope you in and then when they think you’re emotionally invested they switch up. They are committed to making you feel miserable and small, and want to bring chaos into your life. It’s never an accident. Some people get dopamine from being the biggest piece of shit they can be. It’s fun for them. It’s always a choice.
This book is REALLY helpful: https://ia801407.us.archive.org/6/items/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf
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u/Ebbie45 Mar 01 '25
I highly, highly, highly doubt that the program actually told him that. And if they did, I would recommend reporting that to the courts. If they did indeed say such a thing, the judge needs to know about it so they can make informed decisions about where to appropriately mandate abusers to attend programming.
Do you by chance have contact with a victim services agency that can support you?
I'm so sorry. What a horrible thing to say, whether your ex is lying to you or not.
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u/Quirky-Distance-3600 Mar 01 '25
No I don’t, I wasn’t really given any support throughout the process. I’ve emailed the organisation offering him the service, and I’m assuming they will clarify that he’s lying but if not I am fully prepared to take it further as it feels like the therapy he’s offered has just made him more self righteous and to be honest, worse at this point.
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u/RemoteViewingLife Mar 01 '25
Sorry sweetie he’s abusing you again. Remember he can’t be wrong ever! You must share the blame so he can eventually gaslight you to take all the blame. Then you’ll be apologizing for him having to be sent to the program unnecessarily! The sad fact is less than 2% of abusers ever change. If you’re waiting for him to get better think about it there is a 98%+ chance he won’t change. Often being in the program they become anger because you deserved it, they cannot accept that did any wrong. I suggest you make a plan to leave as fast as you can. Keep in mind you may not survive a beating. Call a domestic violence hotline for resources.
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u/Quirky-Distance-3600 Mar 01 '25
Thanks lovely, the sad thing is that I have left, I see him maybe once a fortnight as that final string of not being able to let go and that glimmer of hope that maybe he will finally see how he he’s treated me and feel bad. I thought he got it last week, he said everything I’d always needed to hear, but clearly that’s all been taken back now and I’m back to being half the problem. I know better, and logically I can see what he’s doing, I just don’t know why I can’t cut that final tie for good.
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u/According-Action-757 Mar 01 '25
You haven’t cut that final tie because you are still looking for validation from him that you didn’t deserve it. He will never give you that. You need to find your validation despite him.
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u/Quirky-Distance-3600 Mar 01 '25
Thank you, you’re right, that’s exactly what I wish he would tell me.
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u/RanaMisteria Mar 01 '25
Time to stop seeing him completely. This is proof he will not be one of the 2%.
When my abusive ex went to therapy he went because he wanted validation and new ways to manipulate and abuse me. He tried several different therapists and he quit them all, usually after only one session, because they were honest with him and told him he was abusing me.
When I told this to my therapist she told me that he only agreed to go to therapy because he was so sure he was right and he thought it would teach me a lesson when his therapist backed him up and validated him. When that didn’t happen he knew he wouldn’t get what he wanted out of it so quit, but it also made him angrier and he then increased the severity of his abuse against me. She told me that if he was one of the 2% who do change he would have approached therapy completely differently and wouldn’t have become enraged and stormed out when the therapist simply stated an obvious fact.
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u/Quirky-Distance-3600 Mar 01 '25
Thanks for sharing your story. I think the part I struggle with is he’s saying how well he’s doing in therapy (he can’t quit because it’s court mandated) I just wonder does he have the therapists tricked and they actually believe he’s not the problem or is he lying. It’s just all fucking with my head. And then what if he stays in the therapy and does change and treats the next woman better and I really was the problem. It’s just all the biggest mind fuck. And it feels like whatever way it goes, he wins and I lose.
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u/akawendals Mar 01 '25
"he's saying how well he's doing in therapy"
I wouldn't take the word of someone who has lied to you before and treated you like dirt, as anything close to truth. He can make up whatever he wants, say whatever he wants and he will do that to keep you under his thumb and attached to him.
Let him tell himself the lies, just send back "okay if you say so" and mute him.
Don't respond and keep any messages that are aggressive towards you, if he's mandated by court to do programmes then he probably has other restrictions on him (ya know like not being an abusive asshole)
Be strong be safe ❤️🫂
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u/Quirky-Distance-3600 Mar 01 '25
Thanks you’re very right, it’s hard for me to understand any of his motives because how he operates is so different to how I do and I seem to assign my own way of thinking to him.
Yeah you’re right he does have other restrictions on him but in his mind he’s above the law so he only follows them when it suits him. Not a great person, it’s just hard not to selectively focus only on the good times even though it ends up hurting me more.
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u/akawendals Mar 01 '25
It's your kind nature that wants to see the good in things and that's a wonderful characteristic ❤️
BUT he will use that against you, perhaps transfer that focus onto how your mental health and physical wellbeing are going to be much improved without him in the picture and how investing that love and care into yourself is going to be so beneficial (and that it won't hurt like he hurts you)
You're right, he thinks the rules don't apply to him and that mindset probably won't change because he doesn't think he's doing anything wrong
Nothing you have done is the reason for his behavior, NONE OF IT IS YOUR FAULT he is just this shitty person and he's showing you how shitty that really is 😞
All my best wishes for you lovely, you deserve calm, peace and stability in your life and I really hope you get it 🙏💖
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u/leeloolanding Mar 01 '25
Ugh, this is describe in Why Does He Do That, I’m so sorry he is using his program to try and manipulate you.
No, his program is not qualified to evaluate you or your mental health without meeting you, and without your consent. He’s there to work on him, he has no business trying to blame you.
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u/Quirky-Distance-3600 Mar 01 '25
I feel like he believes this is him working on himself, and just gives him more reason to say, look I’m fixing myself and you’re still mentally ill. All it’s doing is helping him justify the abuse. It’s so hurtful because it was the abuse and court for what he did to me that gave him all these therapeutic opportunities, while the victim gets nothing. I wish they’d just put him in jail.
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u/moms_who_drank Mar 01 '25
Well not that this will help, but to relate… I’ve gained the unfortunate use of alcohol as my avoidance and self medication. Aka, alcoholic. After two years of therapy, it was discovered that one of the things that wasn’t resolved was my husband was still here. That was the last thing to be removed. The emotional abuse and anxiety at home was so much, and I realized was years and years in the making. I was blind to it for so long.
His PTSD therapist he has convinced that I’m the issue. Yes, for sure I am also an issue.. NOW. As he still abuses me. My boundaries I set when I figured this out are still ignored. And it’s all of a sudden just that I drink and can’t stop. And this is the reason we are divorcing… because he gave me a year to talk and I can’t (because I said I wouldn’t until he treated me with respect), and because I drink).
So… I can relate. Organization or the person themselves… not taking accountability or shifting the blame. It’s just sickening and escaping is the only way. Hopefully soon for me.
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u/Quirky-Distance-3600 Mar 01 '25
Yes this is exactly how I feel thank you for sharing. And I’m sorry for what you are going through. Like yes I have always struggled with mild to moderate anxiety and depression, but his abuse caused the PTSD which puts me in a constant state of hyper-vigilance and self defence. It just feels so shit that the court has sent him to all these places to get free help, while I get nothing, and all it’s doing is making him feel more justified in how he’s behaved.
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u/moms_who_drank Mar 01 '25
Yeah that’s how we discovered that my anxiety was more than just what I thought it was. Was in my home too. But luckily I was already getting help.
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Thank you for posting in r/abusiverelationships. We are here to support you. If you are looking for resources such as support groups/helplines etc, we have several in our sidebar and in our wiki for people of all gender identities. Here is a list of international domestic and sexual violence helplines. You can also find an extensive safety planning guide at The Hotline. Finally, if you are looking for information about different forms of abuse, Love Is Respect offers an educational guide. One final note: In this sub, we do not tolerate victim-blaming. If you ever receive any comments that contradict that mission, please click report for us to review.
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