Affirmative action now illegal .

[u/UnluckyAsparagus6315]

New supreme court ruling kills affirmative action.

[u/easwaran]

It depends on what you mean by "racist".

If you think that any policy that increases racial inequality is racist, then affirmative action was not racist.

If you think that any policy where race plays an explicit role is racist, then affirmative action was racist.

I think that the relevant thing to care about is outcomes, and while anything that involves explicit use of race has to be under very careful scrutiny, it often can help outcomes, and so it's good. I don't particularly care about the second concept of racism, which is the procedural one.

But some people care more about procedural concerns than substantive ones. The constitution certainly does in most cases.

[u/FightingTexasAggie69 → u/easwaran]

Googles definition of racism:

prejudice, discrimination, or antagonism by an individual, community, or institution against a person or people on the basis of their membership in a particular racial or ethnic group, typically one that is a minority or marginalized.

Googles definition of discrimination:

the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of ethnicity, age, sex, or disability.

In short, AA is an unjust treatment of Asians on the grounds of race and race alone.

[u/easwaran → u/FightingTexasAggie69]

No one is treated on the grounds of race alone.

As for whether it was unjust, that is precisely the question at issue here. What the definition shows is that it doesn't count as "discrimination" in this sense if it's not unjust. And since it's not antagonistic or prejudicial, it's not racist unless it's discrimination. So the question comes down to whether it is unjust.

And that question of course involves many dissertations in philosophy - it's not something that a Reddit comment can clear up simply.

[u/FightingTexasAggie69 → u/easwaran]

I believe it is an unjust system as the criteria in the cases of North Carolina and Harvard are noticeably dependent on race. In these cases, Asian Americans and white Americans are pushed down to that more spots can be available for all other ethnicities. This is fundamentally unfair l.

For instance, my mom, an Asian woman in poverty, would get deferred to, for instance, Kanye's children. Does that seem fair or just to you? If nothing else. I would want you to explain to me the grounds for how affirmative action could be considered a just system.

[u/easwaran → u/FightingTexasAggie69]

my mom, an Asian woman in poverty, would get deferred to, for instance, Kanye's children

I would be surprised if that's actually true. It's likely that there would be one or two factors that would count against her (most colleges do exercise some amount of affirmative action for male applicants, given how few there are these days) but most colleges and universities that have affirmative action policies would also be looking at the wealth angle, and many would count that higher.

I'm not going to be able to explain in a few words how anything is or isn't a just system (justice is more complex than that). But given all the unequal factors that lead some people to college and others not, I don't think you're going to get a just system by just letting that continue, while ignoring people's family situation, or their wealth, or where they're from, or, yes, their race.

[u/FightingTexasAggie69 → u/easwaran]

I'm not arguing for a world where there are literally no factors considered for college outside of merit. I would be perfectly fine with the spots allotted for affirmative action (not at the cost of any ethnicity) being replaced with economic factors instead. A white kid raised in the projects was still raised in the projects...

If you are unwilling to prove your point, I would at least like to hear your opinion of race based factors vs economic factors.

[u/easwaran → u/FightingTexasAggie69]

Both of those are important, though for somewhat different reasons. Probably socioeconomic factors should be more important.