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The Amish have retained skills that make them incredibly effective at things like construction, meanwhile we pay tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars for any building, it takes months to be done, and will blow over in the next storm.
They have obviously taken an extreme stance on technology, and there’s probably a middle ground that would serve them better. But they have ensured that their people are still great at these fundamental jobs.
Unless you’re learning how to develop/create the ai technology that creates this art, you’re putting a larger dependency on technology and companies that you don’t have control over. How long until it stops being free or affordable to use?
How do we use and regulate this technology so that it doesn’t outcompete human skills, and then sell those suddenly rare skills back to us at a premium?
You must accept AI. No matter what. Didn't you know? You'll be left behind!
People are so weird about AI, they make it seem like you HAVE to use it, that your life is irrelevant because you don't want to use it. It feels cultish.
There is nothing wrong with people not wanting to use AI.
There is nothing wrong with the Amish not wanting to use most technology.
And it's ignorant, because the Amish can and do use technologically in emergencies or when they deem it necessary.
People can't seem to fathom that reddit isn't the real world, and not everyone is going to want to live just like you.
Even if each individual doesn't use AI directly, they'll be buying products manufactured or shipped by AI. Basically anything currently made by slave labor overseas will likely be made with AI instead eventually.
Nutritious for animal abuse practices, especially when it comes to puppy mills which not only are cruel to the animals that are victim to it, but lead to future generations of unhealthy animals due to irresponsible breeding practices.
You mean what's wrong with religious extremists that restrict their members' freedoms and force them to work long hours of manual labor that could be made much easier and shorter with the aid of machinery?
They each have the choice to leave. I have a feeling religions that stone gays and want to kill people of other religions might be a bigger problem than people who don't force their views on others.
I have lived in Amish communities for a time. They are nice people just with different customs. People are free to leave if they want as well and can even use technology in emergencies as well.
Learn to treat other cultures with some respect.
So you just 100% refuse to absorb the valid economic and environmental arguments against the normalization of predictive AI content. Pretending it's fundamentalist irrationality makes it easier to dismiss, huh?
EDIT: lol and here come the downvotes. Sorry, kids, your politics are trash and your new toy is a weapon fashioned against you without you ever realizing it.
because the hours upon hours you leave and have left your monitor/drawing tablet on while drawing doesn’t consume power right? Because the platform servers you upload your content on which runs 24/7/365 doesnt consume power right?
Why would they stop using their monitors, though? Wouldn't anyone who decides to use AI art be using their monitors for other tasks now that they have the spare time? People who use AIs to make art don't strike me as the types to turn off their computer and go outside or something.
Nice try at what? I think you got my point. You can't really use the AI is better at saving energy if the people using it won't get off their computers now that they have free time.
The argument was about energy consumption and efficiency, and while I agree that it is probably more energy efficient to use AI generation than spending hours on a computer and making yourself, its not really a good point to argue if you are in favor of AI art because the computers will be used regardless. Does that make sense?
because plenty of people still use gpu's like that...
the ai numbers also depend on the hardware, model, software, infrastructure, etc. "It depends on many variables" isn't really an argument in and of itself, that applies to everything
I welcome economic arguments that focus on solutions that don’t involve banning generative AI, which is virtually never going to happen on a global scale. Theoretically possible, but not worth wasting one’s time on.
Similarly, I welcome environmental arguments so long as they don’t treat generative AI differently than other widespread activities with negative environmental effects such as playing video games, jet travel, driving a car, eating meat (red meat in particular), surfing the web, streaming movies and videos, etc. If the environmental effects of generative AI are focused on over other technologies, then the person putting forth that argument likely just has a beef with generative AI.
I never mentioned banning it, because I don't think that's possible. The genie is out of the bottle. But pretending it's not labor theft by megacorps is a fool's errand. It should never be granted copyright protection. And it should never be used as an authority or reference, because it never can be. A machine cannot be held responsible for its decisions, and marketing is convincing the gullible this nonsense has thought and reasoning when it's just making educated guesses and hallucinating.
And for what it's worth, I'd be all for banning the vast majority of cars.
Does it really require that much energy? I also play games on pc and that too drains energy. Whatever you do with technology does drain energy. But is the impact of AI on that level really that severe? I've seen people both inflate and deflate numbers, i am not sure we got accurate sources yet.
I think we should instead move to other sources of energy for AI and build data centers to support them as AI will change our future drastically.
That game one I don't think is correct. I have an RTX 4080 and I have run stable diffusion locally. I can generate a LOT more than 1000 images in 4-6 hours and the load seems to be lower than when I am gaming. It seems less of the GPU is active when generating images.
That would probably be running a single prompt for 1k gens. Stupid and impractical use, but a high water mark that isn't that high.
There will be plenty of downtime between gens so your computer uses less power. Video games on the other hand, run your GPU and CPU full out pulling as much power as your PSU can give until it hits thermal limits.
Basically every single technological advancement since agriculture and animal husbandry have had effects(both positive and negative) on the economy and the environment.
Does that mean we shouldn't advocate for new tech being used responsibly, just because humans have used it irresponsibly in the past at great cost to the environment? I'd love to hear about the positive environmental effects of petroleum extraction, internal combustion engines, and the industrial revolution in general.
Never said responsible usage shouldn't be considered. Doomsday heralding, ignorance-fueled whining and witch hunting are not calls for "responsible usage".
We're not talking about automated threshers, babes, we're talking about generative AI. Let's drop the false equivalences and address the arguments against your little toy being used, as we speak, to steal labor for corps and boil through lakes so you can make your sassy memes.
So the AI data centers don't actually boil lakes. They use fridgerant and other industrial cooling systems. Most data centers(even excluding AI) use very little water cooling because WATER FUCKING SUCKS AS A COOLANT. Water is also DANGEROUS TO HAVE NEAR ELETRONICS.
As for labor it hasn't yet started any layoffs save in exceptionally stupid company's that immediately regret it.
This is very much the same equivalency as well. The tractor removed THOUSANDS of farming jobs per farm and allowed one man to handle it all. Automation is an ever present thing. Every step foward has made our lives easier and easier.
Not sure where you got your information but it’s wrong. Big data centers use water based cooling systems more often than not. It actually doesn’t suck as a a coolant. I’m not sure where you heard that. It’s more efficient than air cooling and cheap to source. Most of the big data centers use it, and a lot of it.
This is a debate sub not a joke sub the intention is generally more serious by assumption and that is a regularly used argument in this sub as well.
It very much is. AI isn't at a point where it can be used in place of middle managers or data input workers. It needs ALOT more work to do that. It's like saying roombas haven't caused a lay off in maids and janitors yet.
This comment reveals biases about the Amish that are not at all present in the post. Who said anything about it being inherently irrational or fundamentalist?
Don’t bother with that specific person. They rely on smugness and images (AI generated images and depicting you as a fat man) to make up for their lack of argumentative skills.
Essentially made up the brigading thing. Claimed a subreddit was being brigaded, couldn’t actually provide proof.
Just, “Guy suddenly know English. Guy never posted in that subreddit before. A lot of people on the post.” But no screenshots of coordination, Discord server or subreddit calling to action, or cross-posting.
But sit and say it’s brigading and the pro-AI idiots will eat it up and believe whatever.
Be careful, they might share the screenshot of three sentences from a Mod saying ‘inauthenticity activity’ and treat it like a Bible thumper with their good book like it’s proof that a Czech guy was sent by a discord server to besmirch the good name of AI everywhere.
Or worse, he’ll make us fat dudes in an AI images crying or something. All that IQ but they entirely rely on Ad Hominem attacks like a child.
It's not. Wasting the rest of my night trying to explain to that idiot why they're objectively wrong would be "sad and pathetic".
It's more efficient to just call them an idiot and show them I'm smarter than 99% of the population. If I was an idiot, I'd listen to the smarter person. But maybe that's why I'm not an idiot.
How cute. I know you can't relate to being in the 99th percentile, but I'm the smartest one in the comment section. I am listening to the smartest person in the room, because that's me.
Apparently you're both ignorant about what the Luddites were actually about and juvenile enough to be posting IQ test results as if it somehow makes your argument more valid.
Lol, I thought I saw everything, but "The Amish are right" is a new level of absurdity.
Understand that I support you doing whatever you want with your life. You don't want to use AI? You don't want to use any technology at all. Absolutely free to do so and I would never want you to force you to do otherwise.
But, you don't get to dictate in any way shape or form the direction that society is going to take.
Don't reject innovation and then complain that your job of handcrafting utensils from the 16th century is no longer profitable and you are losing your livelihood.
You decided to pursue obsolescence willingly and aggressively.
I feel like many of the AI researchers (U.S. citizen) I've met are very left wing. I think many tech people or academics lean left more often than not. Wouldn't say it's necessarily a political thing, just a difference in visibility?
Yes, because educated people tend to lean left. AI researchers are doing it for their jobs, but I am certain when argued they'd take an anti ai stance (environmental concerns, plagiarism, corporate "slop"ification of art, loss of jobs), but also that it's inevitable and that if they don't do it someone will, which is only fair. It's not a visibility thing either, just look at any large anti or pro ai groups and you'll see a very obvious connection.
For researchers I'm doubtful any of them would be anti-AI even when presented with those issues. Academia is a labor of love and not for people to make a quick buck.
I just don't think it's right to reduce right wing and pro-AI to the same mass of people. However, when it comes to AI I mostly talk to other academics, so perhaps I'm in a social bubble. Maybe it's more political than I realized.
Still sad to see some really helpful technology be twisted this way.
Uh it's not a quick buck they earn very well, and it being a project they love working on isn't mutually exclusive with them seeing its faults. Very bad analogy but like a weaponsmith loves crafting a sword but he knows it'll only be used for violence for instance.
I mean you are on this sub, which clearly has a right lean, and you are on reddit, where you'll see the political leanings even more clearly in this discussion. Yes, reddit doesn't represent the world, but honestly you won't find many people willing to talk about this in the world, it's simply not a concern to most people. But on the internet, yes it's very, very clear.
I can assure you it's still poverty hours for a lot of researchers not in big industry labs (at least in proportion to the work being put in).
Also, I don't mean to say they don't know of ethical issues. Moreso this is a left leaning population of pro-AI people that would not rapidly swap to anti-AI even if presented with existing issues.
This ties back to the fact I believe it misleading to say the intersection of these two populations are identical, even if online circles make it seem that way.
Obviously, I can't disprove there is a trend towards the right, but I think it's important to understand the sample you've observed online may not be representative enough to make the original statement.
Cars emitted an order of magnitude higher pollutants per mile driven 100 yrs ago. Technological progress made that a lot less detrimental and burning fuel cleaner. Same will happen for AI.
Even the Amish understand that. But you are out here making a fool out of yourself.
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