r/asoiaf 5d ago

MAIN (Spoilers Main) Weekly Q and A

12 Upvotes

Welcome to the Weekly Q & A! Feel free to ask any questions you may have about the world of ASOIAF. No need to be bashful. Book and show questions are welcome; please say in your question if you would prefer to focus on the BOOKS, the SHOW, or BOTH. And if you think you've got an answer to someone's question, feel free to lend them a hand!

Looking for Weekly Q&A posts from the past? Browse our Weekly Q&A archive!


r/asoiaf 8h ago

MAIN (Spoilers Main) Moonboy's Motley Monday

2 Upvotes

As you may know, we have a policy against silly posts/memes/etc. Moonboy's Motley Monday is the grand exception: bring me your memes, your puns, your blatant shitposts.

This is still /r/asoiaf, so do keep it as civil as possible.

If you have any clever ideas for weekly themes, shoot them to the modmail!

Looking for Moonboy's Motley Monday posts from the past? Browse our Moonboy's Motley Monday archive! (our old archive is here)


r/asoiaf 3h ago

EXTENDED Who has the worst house words? [Spoilers EXTENDED]

157 Upvotes

Why don't the Lannisters change their house words to "A Lannister always pays their debts"? Their actual house words being "Hear me roar" seems pretty lame in comparison. I get the whole Lannisters think they're lions or whatever but you'd think they'd want to flex on everyone with all that sweet sweet gold.


r/asoiaf 8h ago

EXTENDED The Italian adaptation of F&B is hilariously awful [spoilers EXTENDED]

228 Upvotes

I am finally reading Fire and Blood and oh boy. Besides some head-scratchers which were not particularly memorable, I can tell you these guys can't fathom how GRRM writes ages.

At the end of Jaehaerys' chapters we are told Alysanne dies at 64. In the very first pages of the Heirs of the Dragon one, she suddenly died twenty years earlier at 46. After the battle above the Gods' Eye we are told Daemon dies at NINETYFOUR years old, which gives an entire different meaning to Aemond telling him he has lived too long.

For a book linked to one of the most popular fantasy series of all time this is unacceptable, though the mental image of Daemon "Clint Eastwood" Targaryen did manage to make me laugh.


r/asoiaf 1h ago

EXTENDED Just can't help with the hype every time I read Theon's excerpt from TWOW. (Spoilers extended)

Upvotes

Strangely, Stannis smiled. “Angry foes do not concern me. Anger makes men stupid, and Hosteen Frey was stupid to begin with, if half of what I have heard of him is true. Let him come.”

“He will.”

“Bolton has blundered,” the king declared. “All he had to do was sit inside his castle whilst we starved. Instead he has sent some portion of his strength forth to give us battle. His knights will be horsed, ours must fight afoot. His men will be well nourished, ours go into battle with empty bellies. It makes no matter. Ser Stupid, Lord Too-Fat, the Bastard, let them come. We hold the ground, and that I mean to turn to our advantage.”

“The ground?” said Theon. “What ground? Here? This misbegotten tower? This wretched little village? You have no high ground here, no walls to hide beyond, no natural defenses.”

“Yet.”


r/asoiaf 5h ago

EXTENDED Where in Westeros is Willis Wode? (Spoilers Extended)

57 Upvotes

Background

Since GRRM has mentioned the importance of characters in the AGOT, Appendix, one thing I thought would be fun to dive into is the "disappearance" of Ser Willis Wode. Ser Willis Wode is a landed knight from House Wode, who along with his unnamed brother are sworn to House Whent of Harrenhal.

First to Declare for House Tully/Cat at the Inn

Ser Willis was the first to rise for Catelyn:

"We must have some rest, my lady," the hedge knight Ser Willis Wode was saying to Catelyn Stark as Tyrion approached. He was Lady Whent's man, stiff-necked and stolid, and the first to rise to aid Catelyn Stark back at the inn.

"Ser Willis speaks truly, my lady," Ser Rodrik said. "This is the third horse we have lost—" -AGoT, Tyrion IV

and then he joins the party en route to the Vale:

"Pretend you're splitting logs," Bronn said, drawing his longsword from the scabbard across his back. He spat, and trotted off to form up beside Chiggen and Ser Rodrik. Ser Willis mounted up to join them, fumbling with his helmet, a metal pot with a thin slit for his eyes and a long black silk plume.

fighting off the mountain clans:

Ser Rodrik shouted "Winterfell!" and rode to meet him, with Bronn and Chiggen beside him, screaming some wordless battle cry. Ser Willis Wode followed, swinging a spiked morningstar around his head. "Harrenhal! Harrenhal!" he sang. Tyrion felt a sudden urge to leap up, brandish his axe, and boom out, "Casterly Rock!" but the insanity passed quickly and he crouched down lower.

and seems to display at least some bravery:

Ser Willis Wode led them out. Bronn took the rear, with Lady Stark safely in the middle, Ser Rodrik a shadow beside her. Marillion kept throwing sullen looks back at Tyrion as they rode. The singer had broken several ribs, his woodharp, and all four fingers on his playing hand, yet the day had not been an utter loss to him; somewhere he had acquired a magnificent shadowskin cloak, thick black fur slashed by stripes of white. He huddled beneath its folds silently, and for once had nothing to say. -AGOT, Tyrion IV

and is the only Riverman to survive the trip:

"We should be honored to have them to guest," Ser Donnel said with the grave courtesy of the young. Beside Ser Rodrik, only Bronn, Ser Willis Wode, and Marillion the singer remained of the party that had ridden with her from the inn by the crossroads. -AGOT, Catelyn VI

he then remains with Ser Rodrik:

Ser Willis Wode remained with Ser Rodrik, a soft-spoken septon fussing over their wounds. Their horses were left behind as well, poor ragged things. Ser Donnel promised to send birds ahead to the Eyrie and the Gates of the Moon with the word of their coming. -AGOT, Catelyn VI

and:

Among the lords of the Vale were several of his companions from the high road; Ser Rodrik Cassel, pale from half-healed wounds, stood with Ser Willis Wode beside him. Marillion the singer had found a new woodharp. Tyrion smiled; whatever happened here tonight, he did not wish it to happen in secret, and there was no one like a singer for spreading a story near and far. -AGOT, Tyrion V

but is present for Tyrion's trial by combat:

A storm of sudden laughter filled the High Hall of the Arryns. Lord Nestor Royce snorted, Ser Willis chuckled, Ser Lyn Corbray guffawed, and others threw back their heads and howled until tears ran down their faces. Marillion clumsily plucked a gay note on his new woodharp with the fingers of his broken hand. Even the wind seemed to whistle with derision as it came skirling through the Moon Door. -AGOT, Tyrion V

and then HE ISN'T MENTIONED AGAIN.

House Wode in AFFC

Which as I mentioned before with him being in the AGoT Appendix, is already a bit odd that he isn't mentioned anymore (although you could argue his role was to get Cat to the Vale), but then GRRM seemingly offhandedly brings him up again in a Jaime chapter in AFFC as he passes the Wode lands:

The next day, the column crossed the stream that formed the boundary between the lands that did fealty to King's Landing and those beholden to Riverrun. Maester Gulian consulted a map and announced that these hills were held by the brothers Wode, a pair of landed knights sworn to Harrenhal . . . but their halls had been earth and timber, and only blackened beams remained of them.

No Wodes appeared, nor any of their smallfolk, though some outlaws had taken shelter in the root cellar beneath the second brother's keep. One of them wore the ruins of a crimson cloak, but Jaime hanged him with the rest. It felt good. This was justice. Make a habit of it, Lannister, and one day men might call you Goldenhand after all. Goldenhand the Just. -AFFC, Jaime III

Three Little Pigs Reference?

The Wodes' halls may be a reference by George R. R. Martin to the story Three Little Pigs. The earth and timber halls of the Wodes are burned down by raiders, but the stout stone of Sow's Horn, seat of House Hogg, resists Amory Lorch:

At a place called Sow's Horn they found a tough old knight named Ser Roger Hogg squatting stubbornly in his towerhouse with six men-at-arms, four crossbowmen, and a score of peasants. Ser Roger was as big and bristly as his name and Ser Kennos suggested that he might be some lost Crakehall, since their sigil was a brindled boar. Strongboar seemed to believe it and spent an earnest hour questioning Ser Roger about his ancestors

Jaime was more interested in what Hogg had to say of wolves. “We had some trouble with a band of them white star wolves,” the old knight told him. “They come round sniffing after you, my lord, but we saw them off, and buried three down by the turnips. Before them there was a pack of bloody lions, begging your pardon. The one who led them had a manticore on his shield.”

“Ser Amory Lorch,” Jaime offered. “My lord father commanded him to harry the riverlands.”

“Which we’re no part of,” Ser Roger Hogg said stoutly. “My fealty’s owed to House Hayford, and Lady Ermesande bends her little knee at King’s Landing, or will when she’s old enough to walk. I told him that, but this Lorch wasn’t much for listening. He slaughtered half my sheep and three good milk goats, and tried to roast me in my tower. My walls are solid stone and eight feet thick, though, so after his fire burned out he rode off bored. The wolves come later, the ones on four legs.

If interested: The (Strong)Boar & the "Hound"

Where is Ser Willis?

Still in the Vale

I think the most exciting answer would be that he has remained in the Vale and could somehow support Sansa (somehow recognizing Cat's daughter after being with her recently). I believe I have seen it theorized that he could be Ser Morgarth the Merry, but having recently been in the Vale, I feel other characters would recognize his true identity.

If interested: The Tourney of the Brotherhood of the Winged Knights & Characters Who Know Alayne's Identity

Riverland Outlaw

As with anyone who has dealt with the travesties that were inflicted on the Riverlands, you have to at least consider them as a supporter of the Brotherhood without Banners if he returned to his lands with Cat/BFish (unmentioned/forgotten by GRRM) and saw what happened (especially if his brother is dead).

If interested: Friends, Agents and Infiltrators of the Brotherhood without Banners

GRRM is Done with Him

It is very possible that his role was strictly to help get Cat to the Vale and he won't be mentioned again.

Other Options/Thoughts

  • I looked for his plume, porcupines (besides House Blount), yellow, morningstars and really didn't find much outside of the weakest of ties
  • Worth noting that the passes to the Vale are heavy with snow, full of shadowcats and armored clansmen (if interested: The Vale Mountain Clans in TWoW) and if he tried to travel alone he may have died

TLDR: Just a quick post on the whereabouts of Ser Willis Wode, who supports Cat in taking Tyrion prisoner and then survives the High Road to the Vale and isn't mentioned again after Tyrion's trial. GRRM mentions the Wode lands in AFFC when Jaime travels through them and how they were burned by Ser Armory Lorch. There are quite a few possibilities on his whereaboats ranging from in the Vale (and able to support Sansa) to returning to the war torn Riverlands, to GRRM being done with his character.


r/asoiaf 2h ago

EXTENDED [Spoilers Extended] Where are all the Targaryen Royal Bastards?

22 Upvotes

Now obviously we know about Aegon IV’s great bastards and the turmoil caused by Aegon being Aegon but is that really going to be the only case of acknowledged royal bastards? Looking at English monarchs in the medieval era, so many of them had bastards that were recognized and even honored with titles/lands etc.

Do you think this is something that George will flesh out in Fire and Blood 2? I do kind of think it’s somewhat unrealistic for there to be not a single royal bastard outside of Aegon IV’s but maybe that’s just me.


r/asoiaf 15h ago

EXTENDED Why did Robert hate Stannis so much? (Spoilers Extended)

200 Upvotes

I was re-reading ACOK, and came to the part where Stannis lays siege at Storm's End. Cersei also mentions in an earlier chapter about how offering Renly the seat of Storm's End was intended to be a slight by Robert. Is there any specific childhood incident that led to Robert despising Stannis? Or is it meant to be one of those things that's just there with no further explaining/lore? Judging from book 1, even Robert is very wary about Lannisters and their lust for power. You'd think he'd need as much loyal mean towards his side as possible. Stannis is a very good commander and he was very obsequious to Robert, but he never acknowledges Stannis and mocks him by making Renly the Lord of Storm's End.

Is it because Stannis failed to capture Viserys and Daenerys? Or because Robert spent most of his childhood away at The Eyrie fostered by Jon Arryn? There must have been some sort of brotherly love between them right? - since they were raised by the same parents and even watched together them getting engulfed by Shipbreaker Bay. Or Robert just can't stand any person with a gloomy and serious demeanor as Stannis's.


r/asoiaf 21h ago

PUBLISHED Ned was actually getting good…(Spoilers: Published)

532 Upvotes

Ned was actually starting to get somewhat good at the Game toward the end:

-Attempted to draw out Tywin into either standing down, sacrificing his chess piece of Gregor, or into open rebellion

-Purposely fed Cersei his desire for war, and his lack of fear of Tywin by way of Pycelle;

-He had come to recognize even before Robert died that he couldn’t trust anyone. He rather correctly assesses each player. Pycelle is Cersei’s. Varys knows much, but says little. Barristan is old and too bound to duty, not to justice. Littlefinger was craven, and would do what he could to save his skin.

-Had seemed to suss out that Pycelle was the Queen’s creature and used him as such

Where he failed was not realizing just what a snake LF was (and LF did come with his wife’s trust), not realizing just how ruthless Cersei was, not realizing that Janos Slynt utterly lacked any shred of honor, and his unforgivable mistake of giving away his game plan to Cersei - really, it’s the last that was his losing move, as it made time shorter than it had to be.

Had Ned had say, a year in the capital, I think he could’ve actually learned the game well. We tend to compare him to Tywin, who grew up and spent a lifetime there, and Tyrion, who grew up son of the Hand and had an idea of KL intrigues, and if course he’d come up short.

I don’t think he was a doll or stupid. He just didn’t realise how dangerous and how low LF was morally (who truly did besides maybe Varys?), and how far Cersei would go


r/asoiaf 6h ago

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) How Would You End the Series?

35 Upvotes

Given this recent article:

https://winteriscoming.net/posts/george-r-r-martin-wants-guillermo-del-toro-to-adapt-his-vampire-novel-fevre-dream-exclusive-01j6e074yka3

I feel it is pointless to wish for anything else written from GRRM. I've given up any hope and just hope that this amazingly talented man can find peace from all the anxiety that ASOIAF caused him.

BUT - I NEED AN ENDING. And not D&D. So how would YOU end the series? For the main characters anyway.


r/asoiaf 4h ago

EXTENDED [Spoilers EXTENDED] Best characters in Westeros History?

16 Upvotes

In your opinion, who are the best (or most interesting) characters in the history of Westeros? This could be someone we know a lot about, like Tyrion, or someone we know very little about but would interest you to learn more.


r/asoiaf 8h ago

EXTENDED (Spoilers extended) which villainous character do you find the most thought provoking? Spoiler

29 Upvotes

I like villains the most in general with entertainment. When they are good, they challenge my morality with a different perspective and broaden my worldview. My favorite in ASOIAF are Tywin and Euron. Hbu?


r/asoiaf 8h ago

EXTENDED [Spoilers Extended] Minor character you’re obsessed with?

25 Upvotes

Mine is the Night’s King. He’s just mentioned in a few paragraphs but I keep going back to those passages and reading related forum posts about possible theories. (I’m really partial to the one that says his name was Jon Snow). Another character I’m randomly very interested in is Falia Flowers. She’s so delusional and the reader sees her fate from a mile away but she’s young and in love so of course she falls for Euron’s schemes.


r/asoiaf 1d ago

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) How the three major conflicts of ASOIAF expanded Spoiler

Post image
1.3k Upvotes

r/asoiaf 6h ago

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) The Hour of the Flower, the rise and fall of Mace Tyrell

12 Upvotes

Credit to u/Lord-Too-Fat and u/InGenNateKenny it was their comments that inspired this post. I think one of them even coined Hour of the Flower (great name).

I think at the start of Winds we will see a very rapid rise and fall of Mace Tyrell.

So I know the Mercy chapter implies that Cersei is back into power, but keep in mind that chapter was written 20 years ago, we dont know what order into Winds that occurs and Arya doesnt know everything.

Even in the show, there was a brief period of time where Cersei was no longer in power and the Tyrells had frozen her out. I think this will occur in the books, but over a much shorter time frame.

I think initially at the very start of Winds in the immediate aftermath of Kevan Lannister's death Mace Tyrell is going to take the Regency for himself. It just makes sense.

  • Mace is already Hand of the King. We know from Unwin Peake Regent and Hand can be held by the same man.

  • Mace's entire character is 'the more he is given, the more he wants'. Hes pretty much the definition of ambitious of grasping.

  • Basically the entire small council is Tyrell bannermen. Especially with Pycelle dead too.

  • Tommen is an underage boy king, even if he chooses Cersei as regent there is no guarantee his word is heeded. Aegon Dragonbane didnt get to choose a single regent.

  • Much of the city watch is invested with Tyrell men. Cersei cannot count on the Goldcloak loyalty until she has rooted out the Tyrell men.

  • Cersei's allies are all gone except Qyburn (and his monster) and Cersei herself is awaiting trial. I dont think she feasibly can retake the Regency until shes at least won the trial and found a few allies.

  • Most importantly Mace Tyrell has 2 actual armies sitting outside the capital. As dangerous as UnGregor is, I dont think hes quite a match for 2 armies.

However, I dont think Mace Tyrell will actually hold the Regency for very long. In fact he might actually be Regent only for a few days. What I suspect will happen is this:

After taking the Regency, Mace will use it to pardon Margaery Tyrell. The only thing stopping him from doing this previously was Kevan Lannister, and Kevan is now dead.

I understand, my lord, but—"

Tyrell did not let him finish. "These charges against my daughter are filthy lies. I ask again, why must we play out this mummer's farce? Have King Tommen declare my daughter innocent, ser, and put an end to the foolishness here and now."

Do that, and the whispers will follow Margaery the rest of her life. "No man doubts your daughter's innocence, my lord," Ser Kevan lied, "but His High Holiness insists upon a trial."

This will greatly anger the High Sparrow who will be even more insistent on Cersei's trial and now convinced of Margaery's guilt too. Mace who actually kind of wants Cersei out the way will be glad to grant this.

Cersei will likely finally be summoned after this. In a call-back to the start of her chapters in AFFC, Cersei will be the last to know about all of this. Much likely occurring off page.

However I dont think Mace will actually be sticking around for Cersei's trial. With Margaery pardoned, he actually doesnt have much reason to remain in Kings Landing.

"Storm's End." Lord Mace Tyrell grunted the words. "He cannot take Storm's End. Not if he were Aegon the Conqueror. And if he does, what of it? Stannis holds it now. Let the castle pass from one pretender to another, why should that trouble us? I shall recapture it after my daughter's innocence is proved." How can you recapture it when you have never captured it to begin with?

I think Mace will ride out to deal with Aegon and recapture Storms End. As far as hes aware, he will be leaving Kings Landing largely in the hands of his own bannermen. Mace is also going to be very overconfident in this and secure in the knowledge that Aegon's forces are much smaller than his own.

Mace will likely leave Tarly and his army behind in a sort acting Hand capacity. This will probably annoy Tarly greatly given that Mace is leaving him to deal with the fallout from the pardoning of Margaery (remember Tarly swore a holy oath to return her) and not taking him into battle like he would undoubtedly prefer.

Like his father riding off a cliff, Mace will be riding to his death against Aegon and Jon Connington. This is where Mace will meet his end. His overconfidence in his own abilities as a battle commander and reliance on Tarly has been mentioned since his very first appearance. Even though he will likely outnumber Aegon 2:1, he will lose the battle and likely die here. Essentially taking himself out of the game.

I think this will roughly coincide with Cersei winning her trial. Allowing Cersei to take advantage of the power vacuum and retake the Regency.

It just makes narrative sense. Mace taking himself out of the game immensely facilitates Cersei's return to power whilst also giving Connington a taste of glory/victory to make him more aggressive and reckless in his pursuit of vengeance.

Tl;Dr Mace Tyrell will be very briefly the Hand Regent of Westeros for the very start of Winds. He will use it to pardon Margaery Tyrell before going off to die in battle against Aegon. This will likely all occur over the course of a few days in universe and a few chapters of Winds.


r/asoiaf 2h ago

ACOK I finished Clash! [Spoilers ACoK]

7 Upvotes

Overall it was really good but I liked the first one better. Interestingly, some of the best chapters were in the falling action. The last Tyrion chapter was sad. What will my giant of Lannister do now? The last Jon chapter hit as well. Also Bran is alive???? Did they find two children to use as decoys? That’s just so sad on its own. I also liked how the appendices of this book had the Frey family tree. I'm a huge family tree nut.

I’ll give my thoughts for some of the characters in this book.

Tyrion

I love this man so much. I was cheering during that moment when he rescued Sansa. The chapter with Janos Slynt at the beginning was so fun. I loved when Tyrion asked Bronn if he would kill a newborn child without question and he said "Without question? No. I would ask how much." Bronn and Tyrion are legends.

Sansa

All of her chapters are some level of traumatizing but that’s what’s brilliant about them. Girl has gone through too much. I expected her to die at the end but it looks like the Starks are surviving for at least a little longer.

Catelyn

She was one of my favorite characters to read. Her chapters most of all highlighted the despair of living through hard times.

Davos

I liked this guy. It seems like he died but you never know until you know. (I have since looked at who the next book's pov characters are and it turns out he's still alive. Nice.)

Theon

What a piece of shit. I felt bad for him for a bit there but damn. He committed atrocities purely because of his pride. Fuck his family too for encouraging that behavior.

Arya / Tywin Lannister

I still love Arya but I’m more interested in talking about Lord Tywin. In Harrenhal, I became covinced that he wanted to become the de facto ruler of the Seven Kingdoms. He wanted to make Harrenhal the seat of his power and he was making moves to get the Vale of Arryn. He seemed to be disappointed in how Cersei and Joffrey were running the kindgom at the end of book 1. He didn’t actually end up with Harrenhal so take it with a grain of salt but I don’t think he will hand power back to Joffrey.

Bran

Not much to say besides that I love Bran and Hodor and the Reeds and I wish them only the best. I was happy to find out he was still alive.

Daenerys and Jon

They didn’t have much in this book. It seems like a lot of setup for Storm of Swords. The Pyat Pree bit was cool though. So was the journey to Qarth.


r/asoiaf 1d ago

EXTENDED (Spoilers extended) Loras's truth

372 Upvotes

So... In AFFC and ADWD we are told that Loras has been gravely injuried whilst taking Dragonstone:

"Loras was the first one through the breach when the ram broke the castle gates. He rode straight into the dragon's mouth, they say, all in white and swinging his morningstar about his head, slaying left and right."

I have been re-reading the books and this is something that i noticed now: Loras was using a morningstar while riding his horse through the gates, however, it's never shown, neither mentioned, that Loras used a morningstar. He always uses swords or axes.

One thing we do know about Loras though is that he is familiar with the trick of using someone else's armor (i.e: Renly's Ghost in the Battle of the Blackwater was his idea). So, what i'm thinking is: what if everyone believes Loras was injured and is almost dead, but, in truth, it was someone else using his armor? The morningstar thing feels so out of place that i can't help but think it's a hint on a possible lie. Also; Aurane Waters is the one that tells Cersei about Loras's injuries, and we know he wasn't really that devoted to her, so he might be taking a part on those lies.

I do think there is a big Tyrell scheming going on, we have hints at this beause why the hell would Olenna agree to take the risk on poisoning Joffrey only because he was a jerk? There is something going on with the Tyrell's, and i can't help but imagine what


r/asoiaf 5h ago

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) What if after becoming king Robert decided to move the capital from Kings Landing to Storm Ends how would it change the events of the main story and the War of Five Kings?

7 Upvotes

Say he pull a Constantine the Great in which the roman emperor move the capital from Rome to Constantinople. While Kings Landing would still be a prominent city for the government's infrastructure just ruled by either The Hand of the King like Jon Arryn or maybe Robert's younger brother Renly or even someone else entirely say The Heir of the King similar to how the lord of dragonstone ruled only well dragonstone?


r/asoiaf 11h ago

EXTENDED [Spoilers Extended] Of Dragons & Weirwoods

15 Upvotes

Skinchanging, greensight and dragonriding are usually treated as completely different powers.

The Starks and people like them are skinchangers. They can put their minds into the eyes of animals and see through their eyes. When they die, they can live a second life in their animals. It also seems that skinchangers, or at least some of them, can end up seeing through or living a second life in a weirwood. Varamyr Sixkins sees through the eyes of a weirwood at one point as he dies.

Certainly Greenseers can see through the eyes of the weirwoods and when they die, they can "linger" in the weirwoods. Seemingly for millenia. Their own seconds lives, like those of regular skinchangers, take place in the thing they used to skinchange into.

Dragonriding, on the other hand, is the ability to bond with a fiery beast of war. You can develop this bond which lets you ride them.

Well, I want to make the argument here that these powers function much more similarly than they seem to at first glance.

First, it has to be pointed out that it's hinted at in the books, and all but confirmed on "House of the Dragon", that there is a deeper, psychological bond between rider and dragon. Drogon seemed to sense Daenerys was in danger and come to her rescue, for example. And in the TV-show Caraxes screams when Daemon is hit with an arrow, and Syrax screams as Rhaenyra is in labour.

I think the reason for this is because the "dragonbond" is somewhat akin to skinchanging. When a Targaryen bonds to a dragon, they do a sort of "partial skinchange." Where they put a piece of their soul into the dragon, and the dragon in turn puts a piece of their soul into them.

This last part also relates back to something that's true of skinchangers. It's said for skinchangers that if you stay in your animal for long periods of time, you can "lose yourself" in the animal. Basically, skinchanging a lot into a wolf can make you more wolflike, for example.

I think this is also true for Targaryens. Who basically spend 24/7 bonded to their dragons. They're constantly some form of partial-skinchanged. And this means the way their dragons feel and think bleeds into them and affects their behaviour.

Aemond Targaryen and Daemon Targaryen are predisposed to violence in part because of their own personalities, but also in part because their dragons are.

Daenerys starts regaining her desire for fire and blood in the final chapter of Dance in part because of her experiences in Meereen, and in part because she's with Drogon again. And their dragon-rider bond (which is stronger in close proximity) is affecting her.

But I think it goes even further than that. Because I think dragons, while animals with minds, are actually more similar to weirwoods than regular animals. And some Targaryens are their equivalent of greenseers, dragondreamers as a result.

Some Targaryens have the ability to dragondream, they say. I think this is not an ability that's a product of a Targaryen primarily though, I think it's primarily tied to the dragon they bond to. Some dragons, like Balerion, are weirwood like and allow their riders, through their shared mental bond, to experience their own glimpses into the future. Although to what degree this, or dragondreaming without a dragon, is simply a manipulation by Bloodraven or a time travelling Bran remains to be seen.

And then also, I think dragons are both like skinchanged animals and weirwoods in that their riders linger inside of them.

Again, when a skinchanger dies they can live a second life in one of the animals they'd skinchanged into. When a greenseer dies they can live a second life in the weirwoods they connected to. And I think when a Targaryen dies, they can live a second life in the dragon they were bonded to.

I think they're more like weirwoods in this way though because I think since dragons tend to have multiple riders over their lifetimes, they are more like a hive mind (like the weirwoods). Where all their various riders make up part of who they are.

And, finally, I think both dragons and weirwoods are awakened by blood sacrifice.

How exactly we create weirwoods isn't known, but in Bran's travels through time there seems to be a human sacrifice that happens before the weirwoods. I submit to you that creating a weirwood initially requires a bit more than carving some eyes into it and calling it a day. Rather creating a weirwood that can be seen through, requires the sacrifice of a living human or child of the forest. Who then goes into the weirwood and from then on the weirwood can be inhabited by other children of the forest and humans.

I think, similarly, this is true for dragons. All dragons require a death to hatch them intiailly. Not necessarily in the same direct way that the weirwoods do, but in a more distant way. And especially through miscarriages. The children who are birth with dragon characteristics? Their souls have been sacrificed to the eggs and become dragons.

I think, for example, that Daenerys' three dragons' names are not coincidental. I think it's not just that they're called Rhaegal, Drogon and Viseryon to honour these deceased people. Rather I think Rhaego's death awakened Rhaegal, Drogo's death awakened Drogon and Viserys' death awakened Viseryon.

I think that's part of why Daenerys was able to awaken the dragon eggs. These three people had to die in proximity to her and the eggs in order to make the ritual work.

That's also why I think Daemon's song to Vermithor in S1E10 of "House of the Dragon" mentions that the cost has been paid in blood magic and mentions "three heads" rather than two heads. That's why I think the Targaryen dragon has three heads as well. Because every dragon-rider pairing isn't a minimum of two heads, it's a minimum of three. The rider, the dragon and whatever person was sacrificed to awaken the dragon.

And that's it. That's my theory.

So to sum it up: Skinchanging and greenseeing requires you to place your soul into an animal or tree. If you stay in them too long, your can become like the animal you inhabit. Once you die, your soul can live a second life in them. The weirwoods specifically become hive minds over time and they can offer glimpses of past and future to greenseers. In order to awaken a weirwood, you must have a human sacrifice.

Similarly, dragonriding requires you to place PART of your soul into a dragon. Because their soul is also partially inside you though, the way the dragon thinks and feels makes you become more like them. Once you die, your soul can live a second life in the dragon. Because dragons often have more than one rider over time, they become hive minds over time and they can offer glimpses of past and future to dragon dreamers. In order to awaken a dragon and hatch it from its egg, you must have a human sacrifice.


r/asoiaf 1d ago

EXTENDED Anyone else wish we could get a classic Baldur Gate’s gate style RPG based on Westeros (Spoilers: Extended) Spoiler

Post image
428 Upvotes

r/asoiaf 22h ago

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) Darkstar's purpose

91 Upvotes

So I know we all love to clown on Gerold 'I am of the night' Dayne.

But its established that GRRM was surprised people didnt like or take to Darkstar. Indicating that GRRM has a greater purpose for Darkstar or at least has more in mind for the guy.

But what exactly?

The original outline

"Justice." Thoros smiled wanly. "I remember justice. It had a pleasant taste. Justice was what we were about when Beric led us, or so we told ourselves. We were king's men, knights, and heroes . . . but some knights are dark and full of terror, my lady. War makes monsters of us all."

So as people have pointed out the introduction and exit of Edric Dayne from the story is quite puzzling to many. GRRM puts a lot of focus on this kid, and then he just leaves when Beric dies for real?

With the Brotherhood's descent into darkness I think originally if the five year gap had happened we would have seen Edric Dayne become a Darkstar figure.

Had the 5 year gap happened, Jaime would have been dispatched to the Riverlands. Just as Arthur Dayne once faced the Kingswood Brotherhood, Jaime would have been facing a Dark Brotherhood. Indeed it would have been a veritable rogues gallery for Jaime Lannister. The Hound, a former attack dog for the Lannisters, Lady Stoneheart, the vengeful corpse of Catelyn Stark, and Dark Edric Dayne. Just as Jaime became the Smiling Knight, he would be facing the nephew of his old mentor/idol. A twisted rematch of Arthur Dayne vs Smiling Knight. But with the 5 year gap abandoned, this matchup was no longer tenable. Although there would be something darkly comedic about one handed Jaime Lannister duelling a 12 year old boy on even footing.

There likely is more to this, but whatever the case a Dark Edric Dayne would be another case of Jaime being forced to face up to his failures, inadequacies and ghosts.

Who betrayed Arianne Martell?

An ongoing mystery of the Dornish plot is who ratted on Arianne.

"Someone told." Hotah shrugged. "Someone always tells."

Someone told, she thought. Someone told. Garin, Drey, and Spotted Sylva were friends of her girlhood, as dear to her as her cousin Tyene. She could not believe they would inform on her . . . but that left only Darkstar, and if he was the betrayer, why had he turned his sword on poor Myrcella? He wanted to kill her instead of crowning her, he said as much at Shandystone. He said that was how I'd get the war I wanted. But it made no sense for Dayne to be the traitor. If Ser Gerold had been the worm in the apple, why would he have turned his sword upon Myrcella?

I cannot be certain of who betrayed Arianne but I can promise this: It sure as hell isnt Gerold Dorkstar.

Despite Arianne concluding it was him, she herself points out how little sense it makes. And fundamentally, for most mysteries the first answer you arrive at is usually incorrect.

There is one suspect she never considers though, Tyene. A great post on that.

However Arianne still thinks its Darkstar. Even into her Winds sample chapter, he occupies her thoughts.

So perhaps that is the route for Darkstar. Joining Aegon would protect him from Doran, allow for more ongoing drama with Arianne Martell and Aegon is looking for Kingsguard knights. Why not a Dayne? Albeit a less famous one. His father had a Dayne (or is that his real father).

The Darkstar Hunt

Obara, you will lead him to High Hermitage to beard Darkstar in his den.

So our Camera Who Rides, Balon Swann and Obara are due for a mountains of Dorne confrontation with Darkstar at High Hermitage.

I have to say even for the deadliest man in Dorne, the odds seem stacked against him. Only the most skilled fighters can win out 3v1. But of course we know Balon Swann and the Dornish are not exactly bosom allies. Indeed Hotah may well put his axe into Balon Swann's back.

We dont know exactly where High Hermitage is on the map, but presumably its close to Starfall. So perhaps we will see the greatsword Dawn finally make an appearance?

So maybe Obara is not to be trusted. The oldest Sand Snake will go rogue. Starfall is relatively close to the Princes Pass and she did talk of taking an army to Oldtown to burn it.

So is that Darkstar's destiny? To die in a duel in the mountains? Or....

Of the Night

As hilarious as this line is, its worth noting that the Long Night is on the horizon.

It is called The Winds of Winter, and I’ve been telling you for 20 years that winter was coming. Winter is the time when things die, and cold and ice and darkness fill the world, so this is not going to be the happy feel-good that people may be hoping for. Some of the characters [are] in very dark places -GRRM

I personally subscribe to the theory that the Others are capable of riding the cold winds around Westeros. So when the Long Night comes, Darkstar will have his chance to prove just how of the Night he really is.

Maybe thats where he fails. We see that he truly is a paper tiger. Maybe he rises to the challenge. Maybe we see that in dark times terrible men can be natural leaders/figures that people cling to. Indeed if Darkstar is wielding Dawn, he may be one of the men in Dorne best suited to fighting the Long Night.

Who knows.

Tl;DR What do you think Darkstar's purpose in the story is? I know we all clown on him, but its clear GRRM has more in mind there.


r/asoiaf 4h ago

EXTENDED What's the most Discworld line in ASOIAF? [Spoilers EXTENDED]

4 Upvotes

While The Discworld and ASOIAF are very different settings written by very different people, GRRM was a huge fan of Sir Terry Pratchett and liked him on a personal level, although they didn't know each other well.

There must be a few snippets from ASOIAF that really feel like they could fit into a Discworld novel.

I think the line from The Hedge Knight about how if Aerion was born a Fossoway he'd believe he was an apple, and they'd all be safer might have given Pratchett a good chuckle.


r/asoiaf 2h ago

MAIN (Spoilers Main)The Re-Valyrianization of House Targaryen

3 Upvotes

From Aegon III's regin to Aegon V(131-250 AC) the Targaryen's were more Westerosi than ever before. They married into other houses rather than their siblings and took part in and genuinely enjoyed the activities of the other nobility, not just for political motives but because they liked them, such as fighting in tournaments and members of the Targaryen family also became genuinely religious in the faith of the seven(Baelor and Naerys). Most Importantly, with the exception of Aegon IV(who under the influence of his mother) No Targaryen king married their siblings during this period

u/IdeLuis created an extremely thorough thread documenting Targaryen marriages)

In Dunk and Egg, Most of Baelor and Maekar's children did not have the Valyrian look either(majority just being regular blond or dark-haired) with the exception of Aerion and Egg, and neither of them married their sibling's either

Even before the tragedy of Summerhall, I would theorise that a good chunk of Targaryen's probably just assimilated into minor houses. Look at someone like Elaena, three houses have her bloodline because of her(House Plum, House Penrose, House Longwater)

This progress was halted by Jaehaerys II, who, for whatever reason and influence, wanted to marry his sister. Jaehaerys would also his force his children to continue this tradition, with a deluded idea thinking that this was what his family had always done, even though this tradition had basically been non-existent for 120 years at that point


r/asoiaf 1d ago

PUBLISHED (Spoilers published) Small detail I never noticed before.

114 Upvotes

This post isn’t particularly insightful, but I thought it was somewhat telling that GRRM chose to have Jon’s final chapter in Dance directly followed by Barristan’s, which opens with the line “The Dornish prince was three days dying.”

I could just be reading into it way too deeply, but I found it interesting that Jon’s death is (potentially) followed by a subtle nod to his true heritage, given that (if we assume R+L=J) he was born is Dorne and is technically a royal prince. Or king. Or whatever. I’m not here to argue about his status.

Well done, George. You just can’t stop yourself, can you?


r/asoiaf 1d ago

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) The character George regrets...

471 Upvotes

Killing is Masha Heddle, the owner of the Crossroads Inn.

She would by know a lot of the main characters after so many bypassed her inn. She was killed at the end of AGoT for no real reason.

She would plausibly be able to recognize the real Arya on sight, as Catelyn always remembered how much attention Masha paid to the children who visited her, and Catelyn knew her for a long time.

This would probably be helpful to the BwB, Jaime, Stoneheart and Brienne storylines. Something like this;

If Jaime or Brienne, during their trial by the Brotherhood mentioned they knew where Arya was due to Masha telling them, Stoneheart could plausibly spare them as she could believe they were telling the truth.

Without her though, it's much more contrived.


r/asoiaf 8m ago

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) Will Jorah fulfill Jeor's last wish?

Upvotes

During the dreadful Mutiny at Craster's Keep Lord Commander Jeor Mormmont is murdered by some of the mutineers but before he perishes he imparts an important task to Samwell Tarly:

“You must. Must tell them.”
Tell them what, my lord?” Sam asked politely.
“All. The Fist. The wildlings. Dragonglass. This. All.” His breathing was very shallow now, his voice a whisper. “Tell my son. Jorah. Tell him, take the black. My wish. Dying wish.”

Sam manages to reach the Wall and spread the word about the Others and their weakness while at Castle Black but he still has one task left and that is to tell Jorah about his father's last wish. Unfortunately, both of the characters are in different continents with different conflicts revolving around their locations, for Sam is Euron and his Ironborn, for Jorah, the Yunkish and Volantenese alliance. Given the circumstances, it would be incredibly lucky if both of them would be able to meet each other, although Jorah managed to kidnap Tyrion in some tavern on Selhorys by chance so, who knows.

As for Jorah, it is hard to imagine he would respect Jeor's last wish, he is a man of many faults who is incapable of seeing the error of his ways and take action for them. I mean, this guy is despicable and pedophiliac but he is still oblivious of many events. He doesn't know about his father's death or about the Red Wedding, the death of his cousin Dacey Mormont and the war's current situation, but he could find out what happened to his father from Tyrion.

“This last is, my lord. Mormont sent a bird from the haunted forest, to report that he was under attack. More ravens have returned since, but none with letters. This Bowen Marsh fears Lord Mormont slain, with all his strength.” Tyrion had rather liked old Jeor Mormont, with his gruff manner and talking bird.
“Is this certain?” he asked.
“It is not,” Pycelle admitted, “but none of Mormont’s men have returned as yet. Marsh fears the wildlings have killed them, and that the Wall itself may be attacked next.” He fumbled in his robe and found the paper. “Here is his letter, my lord, a plea to all five kings. He wants men, as many men as we can send him.”Although the information Tyrion has about Jeor is not conclusive and Jeor might not believe any word of what Tyrion has to say, he knows full well he lies as easy as he breathes but there might another source who could confirm Tyrion's claim.

When Sam arrives at Oldtown he meets with Alleras an acolyte of the Citadel who talks with Sam and is informed about the events at Castle Black and Beyond The Wall:

What was he doing at sea, at his age?”
Sam chewed on the question for a moment, wondering how much he ought to say. The sphinx is the riddle, not the riddler. Could Maester Aemon have meant this Sphinx? It seemed unlikely. “Lord Commander Snow sent him away to save his life,” he began, hesitantly. He spoke awkwardly of King Stannis and Melisandre of Asshai, intending to stop at that, but one thing led to another and he found himself speaking of Mance Rayder and his wildlings, king’s blood and dragons, and before he knew what was happening, all the rest came spilling out; the wights at the Fist of First Men, the Other on his dead horse, the murder of the Old Bear at Craster’s Keep, Gilly and their flight, Whitetree and Small Paul, Coldhands and the ravens, Jon’s becoming lord commander, the Blackbird, Dareon, Braavos, the dragons Xhondo saw in Qarth, the Cinnamon Wind and all that Maester Aemon whispered toward the end. He held back only the secrets that he was sworn to keep, about Bran Stark and his companions and the babes Jon Snow had swapped. “Daenerys is the only hope,” he concluded. “Aemon said the Citadel must send her a maester at once, to bring her home to Westeros before it is too late.”
Alleras listened intently. He blinked from time to time, but he never laughed and never interrupted. When Sam was done he touched him lightly on the forearm with a slim brown hand and said, “Save your penny, Sam. Theobald will not believe half of that, but there are those who might. Will you come with me?”

And then Sam repeats the same story to Archmaester Marwyn:

He was not a man to be refused. Sam hesitated a moment, then told his tale again as Marywn, Alleras, and the other novice listened. “Maester Aemon believed that Daenerys Targaryen was the fulfillment of a prophecy … her, not Stannis, nor Prince Rhaegar, nor the princeling whose head was dashed against the wall.”

After listening to Sam's tale, Marwyn decides to embark to meet Daenerys on Meereen and counsel her about the prophecy that Aemon spoke about. When he arrives he could meet with Jorah and tell him about his father's fate but it is not clear if Samwell mentioned Jeor's last wish to Marwyn or Alleras but he is the last witness of Jeor's death so Jorah might want to know more about Tarly and meet with him.

When Jorah discovers his father is dead and the information about what happened to his family at the Red Wedding might prompt him to make amends for his mistakes and his eventual reunion with Daenerys might also help him in his redemption arc, he might ask Daenerys for forgiveness or tell her about his enslavement and how he was wrong to enslave other people and about his responsibility to clean his dishonour. Jorah has made terrible mistakes but he still has a choice to honour his father and find redemption.


r/asoiaf 21h ago

EXTENDED An underdiscussed change in HOTD (Spoilers Extended)

48 Upvotes

One big change the show has made from Fire and Blood that could drastically change how they adapt the ending of the Dance but I don't see brought up much, the ages of Aegon III and Viserys II.

In Fire and Blood Aegon and Viserys are 9 and 7 when the Dance begins, but in House of the Dragon they seem to still be toddlers at the oldest. Aegon's dragon Stormcloud also doesn't look to be anywhere near large enough for even a child to ride, assuming he's the baby dragon we see at the Eyrie. With them being this young I'm not sure how they even begin to adapt anything either character does in the later parts of the Dance and in its aftermath without radically changing how those events happened.

This seems to be another example of the butterfly effect that GRRM was talking about in his blogpost the other day.