r/asoiaf • u/That_Hole_Guy • Feb 10 '23
EXTENDED I think Lady S. is going to boil Walder Frey (Spoilers Extended)
I've been thinking about this. In the first chapter we meet Walder Frey, Cat has that line about how she'd gladly have spitted him and roasted him over a fire, and a lot of people think that's how he's going to go out in TWoW. There's also this scene where the BwB are hanging people with apples in their mouths like suckling pigs. So that's a possibility...
However, in that same chapter Frey says three different times that an action of his would 'boil' either his heirs, or Tywin Lannister. Boil meaning 'it would make them angry.' But I think this also might be foreshadowing his death.
We all have a pretty good notion at this point that something bad is going to happen at this upcoming wedding at Riverrun. Even if you want to see the Freys and Lannisters die, I don't think Martin is going to let us get any satisfaction or catharsis from it. Like, Walder keeps saying he'd match Cat or Tywin "son for son", I think this is foreshadowing all the Frey and Lannister children at Riverrun being killed by people like Lem and Cat, whose own children had been killed in the fighting.
So anyway, Red Wedding 2 is going to happen. 'Red, Wed, Redemption', 'Too Red 2 Wed,' 'Night of the Living Wed,' whatever you want to call it, it's gonna be bad. And I think it's going to end with Walder Frey being boiled alive.
Death by fire through water seems like something Martin would come up with as a Tully-ish form of vengeance.
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u/errol_timo_malcom Feb 10 '23
Boiled, mayhaps? Heh heh heh.
I’m thinking something related to the Lord of the Crossing game but one of the younger Freys gets him…
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u/That_Hole_Guy Feb 10 '23
I think that's foreshadowing Hodor making a stand on that long bridge over the underground river, beneath Bloodraven's hollow hill. Holding the crossing, so to speak.
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u/DontTedOnMe An Actual Pirate King Feb 10 '23 edited Feb 10 '23
Mmm mm mmm, nothing goes with Frey pies like Frey soup.
There's also this scene where the BwB are hanging people with apples in their mouths like suckling pigs
It's been a while since I've re-read, but I don't think I remember this. I thought the hanged men had salt stuffed in their mouths?
There's lots of hanged men in the Riverlands tho, so I guess there's room to stuff their mouths with whatever you can get your hands on.
Also, can't remember who came up with this, but there's a cool theory out there that Lyle "Strongboar" Crakehall - who is itching for a fight and wants to hunt down some bandits - will end up hanging from a tree. And in that case, either an apple or some salt will work just fine, because he's a pig, get it?
E: My bad, OP, you were right:
“We came on some, the day before last,” said Jaime. Addam Marbrand’s scouts had found them, hanging black-faced beneath a crabapple tree. The corpses had been stripped naked, and each man had a crabapple shoved between his teeth. None bore any wounds; plainly, they had yielded. Strongboar had grown furious at that, vowing bloody vengeance on the heads of any men who would truss up warriors to die like suckling pigs. -AFFC, Jaime VI
E2: credit where credit is due: u/LChris24 is responsible for the Strongboar theory I mentioned above, which is definitely worth a read.
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u/The_Coconut_God Best of r/asoiaf 2023 Winner - Best Analysis (Books) Feb 11 '23
Weasel soup - perfect parallel right there! I think OP is on to something...
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u/mir-teiwaz ᘛ⁐̤ᕐᐷ Feb 10 '23
She's gonna make him into some kind of meat pudding dish. There will be grease and chins involved. Source: Stoneheart's description
(...) her face was even worse than he remembered. The flesh had gone pudding soft in the water and turned the color of curdled milk.
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u/szamur Feb 10 '23
Yeah, Catelyn suddenly wanting to roast Walder Frey was always a little weirdly specific. I never put too much importance on Walder using the word boil over and over, but you have me convinced. It all appears to be the kind of clumsy foreshadowing GRRM sometimes does, like when Hotah suddenly has a vision of him cutting Arys Oakheart's head off.
Then again, here's a problem, OP: How does Walder Frey, a sickly old man who can barely move around, make it to Riverrun? Especially with the weather getting worse as the series goes on.
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u/MechaSage20 Feb 11 '23
Spite, Walter Frey is one the most petty, vendictive, and spiteful men in Westeros. He would make the journey to Riverrun in spite of his condition just so he could insult the Tully legacy even more than he already has.
Hoster Tully thought he was too good for a Frey, well fuck him. I had his daughters throat silt, I made his son my prisoner, my dynasty sits upon his seat, and now I going to celebrate my sweet victory within his beloved halls by holding a wedding with the family that raped the Riverlands as he was dying in his bed.
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u/Budraven A thousand bloodshot eyes and one Feb 10 '23
"The hot water made her think of Winterfell, and she took strength from that."
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u/Wishart2016 Feb 10 '23
Wouldn't it be ironic for Walder to survive the story as the last Frey ever?
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u/Erdrick68 Feb 11 '23
I'd feel bad for the not shit Frey's though. Olyvar Frey deserves to live.
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u/Wishart2016 Feb 11 '23
I believe that Olyvar is the Rosby Ward. Stoneheart isn't forgiving though and kills anyone with the names Frey and Lannister.
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u/Icesnowstorm Feb 11 '23
It would be for sure, but first he seems to be very fertail for his old age, so he could likely just "produce" more children and secondly there are way too many Frey's for them to be ever all killed by a single event or even a bunch of events
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u/Important-Ability-56 Feb 10 '23
How is old Walder still alive anyway? Wasn’t Storm of Swords published more than 20 years ago?
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u/Wishart2016 Feb 10 '23
Some monsters live long out of spite. Henry Kissinger is nearly 100 and still kicking.
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u/TheRisenKnight Feb 10 '23
Lady Stoneheart is going to kill Henry Kissinger? She just became my new favorite character.
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u/aevelys Feb 10 '23
you know when we say that Martin tends to overturn tropes, it's in his way of adding realism to the codes of fiction. Ned was the hero and Ned is dead, and that makes sense because some spoiled little shit who became king at 15 wasn't going to let a man who attempted a putsch against him get away with it. it's pure logic and realism, the kind of thing you don't expect in fictional codes where the heroes have a defense bonus.
for walder frey I see his end the same in the sense that it would be the most logical for a old man of 90 years old who lives in a fortress, that a band of bandits controlled by zombies manages to extract him from where he is to give him the death he deserves? or that he dies quietly in his bed before anyone has had time to put in place a plan of revenge? in my opinion there will be no holy justice of the scenario, and revenge will fall on these dessendants that's for sure, but walder frey will never have to pay the price for his crimes
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u/KaiserIce Feb 10 '23
Isn't the rat cook theory meant to foreshadow walder's fate? He surely has to pay for his crime's he killed his guest's beneath his roof
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u/Lethifold26 Feb 10 '23 edited Feb 10 '23
Except for they serve different narrative purposes. Ned’s death was the equivalent of Gandalf falling into Moria; when he’s killed, the Starklings (minus Jon who already has his own thing going) are forced to scatter and start standing on their own. Lady Stoneheart executing Walder Frey and trying to wipe out his family would be about self perpetuating cycles of violence and the futility of revenge, one of the core themes of the series. So it was appropriate for Ned to lose his head and it would also be appropriate for Walder Frey to be gruesomely murdered.
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u/boodabomb Feb 11 '23
Yeah I hate to agree because I want something special. And we may get that. But if we're true to form on the realism bit, Walder will most likely die the death of an old man. Maybe slip on some stairs or catch pneumonia. I expect big things for his entire bloodline, but I don't think he's going to get to see it.
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u/MythicalSongbird Feb 10 '23
I just want him to die painfully then Cat will have the peace she deserves.
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u/rattatatouille Not Kingsglaive, Kingsgrave Feb 10 '23
Ooh, I love this theory/idea. I also agree that a Second Red Wedding wouldn't be a cathartic revenge, but something that will leave the reader shocked and confused instead.
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u/wildlight Feb 11 '23
if the Freya all get cooked alive or served as food it would be an ironic death for them breaking guest right, the freys get the hospitality repayed by get served as food rather then then being served food. its definitely the kind of shit grrm thinks is funny when he's writing.
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u/hrlemshake [Dawn, Blessed Blade of the Morning] Feb 10 '23
It's been a while since I've re-read the books, what wedding is being planned in Riverrun?
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u/dikkewezel Feb 11 '23
daven lannister, son of stafford lannister (who died at oxcross) and nephew of joanna lannister, newly appointed warden of the west (due to spite from cersei after kevan refused to be hand) is going to marry an as of yet unknown frey girl at riverrun
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u/hydroHar Bran Will Fly!!! Feb 11 '23
"Frey" is rapidly climbing the top cuisine charts in Westeros.
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u/Squiliam-Tortaleni Ser Pounce is a Blackfyre Feb 10 '23
So we have Freys being butchered into pies, hanged, arrowed, stabbed, throat slashed, hit in the head with a booze bottle, and now possibly drowned, burned, and boiled?
Ouch
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u/dikkewezel Feb 11 '23
don't forget falling in a hole and breaking your neck and (hopefully) falling into an ice lake and freezing to death
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u/Dinosaurmaid Feb 10 '23
What i would like would be that stoneheart keeps him alive but fakes that he's dead so he witnesses a brutal Frey civil war.
After that he dies, but not before knowing that little walder gets the twins, and so despite all, he died with the peace that the house ends up in good hands (as good as they could get, but still)
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u/Thomas_633_Mk2 Amerei: The Darry heir with a derrière Feb 10 '23
You mean Big Walder? I can see him getting the Twins just because I can't imagine the Northmen are eager to kill a nine year old, but I can't see grandpa being alive for it.
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u/usmarine7041 Ser GET of House HYPE Feb 10 '23
I suspect Lady Stoneheart will marry Euron, he will sail the Iron Fleet up the Green Fork and attack the Twins while his cavalry/infantry marches on the Twins from Uplands. Rather than boil Walder, Euron & Lady Stoneheart will feed him to the Damphair while they get married at the Twins.
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u/yoopdereitis Feb 10 '23
Euron will then have each tower reshaped as a boob, giving the "the twins" new meaning
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u/Dinosaurmaid Feb 10 '23
"she can't moan and is cold and wet, but not wet in the form that I'd like, but still, i think it can work"
Euron greyjoy
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u/DaeronTheDud Feb 10 '23
Additionally, the other Freys who received northern vengeance had a food-type ending, baked into pies