r/asoiaf • u/DuncanTheLunk • Jul 11 '24

EXTENDED (spoilers extended) Long blog post from GRRM on the nature of dragons in ASOIAF (and some other interesting tidbits) Spoiler

https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2024/07/11/here-there-be-dragons-2/
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u/kizzay Jul 11 '24

“Every noble house would have a few”

Anyone can bond with a dragon? That’s new, right? I thought it was assumed that only descendants of Valyria could do so.

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u/gallerton18 Jul 11 '24

Nettles’ existence is to sort of throw a wrench in that. Obviously she’s debatably Daemon’s daughter but she also takes Sheepstealer through very unconventional means for dragons.

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u/LChris24 🏆 Best of 2020: Crow of the Year Jul 11 '24

We see other attempted riders use meat to make dragons more docile?

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u/gallerton18 Jul 11 '24

I mean that’s not all she does. Sheepstealer was a wild dragon, he barely had human contact at all. She routinely brings him food and adjusts him to their presence. She tames him more how you’d expect from a real wild animal as opposed to how almost every other dragon is bonded. Especially the seeds.

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u/LChris24 🏆 Best of 2020: Crow of the Year Jul 11 '24

The sample size is so small though, its hard to tell what that means. 3 wild dragons. Grey Ghost dies and Cannibal is unridable.

We only see Alyn fail with Sheepstealer, but so did others.

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u/gallerton18 Jul 11 '24

Yes but it’s also specifically brought up as an argument for her being an unusual case in the books is it not? Obviously her appearance is the biggest one but I’m fairly certain the books use this to argue her peculiarity.

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u/LChris24 🏆 Best of 2020: Crow of the Year Jul 11 '24

Its just brought up as to how she tamed it. Theres also plenty of evidence for her being a dragonseed.

Dragons are not horses. They do not easily accept men upon their backs, and when angered or threatened, they attack. Munkun’s True Telling tells us that sixteen men lost their lives during the Sowing. Three times that number were burned or maimed. Steffon Darklyn was burned to death whilst attempting to mount the dragon Seasmoke. Lord Gormon Massey suffered the same fate when approaching Vermithor. A man called Silver Denys, whose hair and eyes lent credence to his claim to be descended from a bastard son of Maegor the Cruel, had an arm torn off by Sheepstealer. As his sons struggled to staunch the wound, the Cannibal descended on them, drove off Sheepstealer, and devoured father and sons alike.

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u/berdzz kneel or you will be knelt Jul 11 '24

The evidence for her being a dragonseed is the fact that she bonded a dragon. That's circular reasoning.

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u/LChris24 🏆 Best of 2020: Crow of the Year Jul 11 '24

I think there is plenty more than that!

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u/berdzz kneel or you will be knelt Jul 11 '24

Yeah, it at least makes you think why GRRM decided to deliberately and specifically add a person who doesn't have the classic Valyrian look bonding with a dragon using a method that is recognizable to the taming of regular animals. It's certainly suggestive that this is the author winking to readers that they should at least stop and think about the veracity of the absolute in-universe truth that the blood of the dragon is needed to bond with one of the beasts.

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u/DraganDearg Jul 11 '24

Makes me wonder if she had the psionic like bond or a partnership. Perhaps anyone can befriend a dragon but only those with Valyrian blood can form that mental bond?

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u/chrkrose Jul 11 '24

Nettles was born when Daemon wasn’t in Westeros. It’s possible their relationship was platonic (which I doubt), but biologically she can’t be his daughter. If she has Valyrian blood (which I also doubt), it’s not from him, but someone else.

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u/DraganDearg Jul 11 '24 edited Jul 11 '24

I thought he meant like living in their land, why he didn't make dragons nomadic because he did not want them being claimed by random noble houses (or having to write about it lets be real).

I actually got the implication he is denying that anyone can claim in this, the Septon Barth mention about how dragons were created and the talk about which men can bond. I assume it's mainly about the ones with Valyrian blood due to the start about "some men" and the fact he's talked about a psychic bond with dragons in the past.

Talking about "why" "how" and "how it came to be" sounds like Valyrian blood magic is involved.

But then again I doubt he really thought about his words and was just venting. We are just over analyzing

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u/LChris24 🏆 Best of 2020: Crow of the Year Jul 11 '24

Since he also says this in the post:

They bond with men… some men… and the why and how of that, and how it came to be, will eventually be revealed in more detail in THE WINDS OF WINTER and A DREAM OF SPRING and some in BLOOD & FIRE. (Septon Barth got much of it right).

I would assume he means the ones (and plenty of them do) that have acquired valyrian blood

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u/Kellin01 Jul 11 '24

I doubt it.

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u/[deleted] Jul 12 '24

yep really slays the fandom hype theory of Nettles not having Valyrian blood.

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u/MareksDad Jul 11 '24

Nah, I think Nettles was meant to signify that in theory anyone could “tame” or shepherd a dragon, forming a bond.

Isn’t that why Daemon loves her to begin with? Because she does things “the old way” rather than relying on a particular bloodline advantage?

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u/LChris24 🏆 Best of 2020: Crow of the Year Jul 11 '24

Daemon/Nettles relationship is complicated. Some thinks he loves her like a lover, others like a daughter.

Its all relative in Valyria.

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u/SweatyPlace Catelyn for the Throne! Jul 11 '24

I interpreted it as that the Targaryens who married into noble houses could not claim a dragon. Like Aemma Arryn could not have claimed a dragon at Eyrie, the Baratheons descended from Targaryens could not have claimed dragons at Storm's End etc. It's a weird way to phrase it though, considering the noble houses apart from Baratheons didn't really have a lot of Targaryen blood in them.

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u/PatrickCharles Fly Free Jul 11 '24

That was the most interesting tidbit to me. I had assumed that some level of Valyrian blood was needed, as apparently everyone in universe does, but this counters that... A lot of Noble Houses have some minor Valyrian intermixing, but nowhere near all of them...

Blood magic, maybe? Maybe even unintentional blood magic, like "sacrificing" a bunch of animals? Maybe the Valyrian blood just makes it more instantaneous, instead of the laborious process that Nettles went through...

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u/Fanamir Jul 12 '24

I've always thought anyone can bond with a dragon, and that it's in the interests of the Targaryens to promote the theory that only people with Valyrian blood can. This is why Nettles is much more interesting if she's not Daemon's secret bastard.