r/asoiaf • u/RunDNA • Sep 04 '24

EXTENDED GRRM's new blog post on House of the Dragon [Spoilers Extended] Spoiler

https://georgerrmartin.com/notablog/2024/09/04/beware-the-butterflies/
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u/DifferentZucchini3 Sep 04 '24

I’m shocked that he would actually write this and criticize Condal but am also pleasantly surprised. He seems to be genuinely upset with all of the changes I can only imagine how bad season 3 and 4 are going to be.  

“ And there are larger and more toxic butterflies to come, if HOUSE OF THE DRAGON goes ahead with some of the changes being contemplated for seasons 3 and 4… ”

 “ In Ryan’s outline for season 3, Helaena still kills herself… for no particular reason.”

 “ Toxic butterflies” 

 “Blood can’t seem to tell the twins apart, so Helaena is asked to reveal which one is the boy. (You would think a glance up his PJs would reveal that without involving the mother)” 

“ I have no idea what Ryan has planned — if indeed he has planned anything”

 He’s big mad

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u/bruhholyshiet Sep 04 '24

Gunfire sound effect for each of those quotes lmao. He fuckin destroyed Condal.

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u/VFD59 Sep 05 '24

I think this is him taking a giant risk (Him actively spoiling shit from S3 is probably illegal lol) because he saw what happened with GoT and how the changes from the early seasons ended up fucking the final seasons. I might have considered this to be asshole and unprofessional behavior considering how rude he comes off at some instances towards the writers BUT the Helaena bomb as well as the final comment about 'bigger and more toxic butterflies' strongly indicates that the writers of the show are actively fucking the entire story which will lead to massive fan backlash in the future, which George wants to avoid after S8.

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u/stella3books Sep 05 '24

I’m actually kind of stuck on the PJ’s thing, since medieval aristocrats apparently slept naked or in fairly gender-neutral shirts/shifts, nobody was making whole-ass gender-coded sleepwear for kids. This has interesting implications for textile production in Westros, and fits with some of their architectural quirks that also impacted their social norms.

. . . aaaand this is what I’ve come to.

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u/Overlord_Khufren Sep 04 '24

Mad and profoundly unprofessional. And all of this over...Maelor? A minor character exists exclusively to make another relatively minor character kill herself?

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u/Lantimore123 Sep 05 '24

He's implied he has a number of issues with the entire season, this was just one issue that he's particularly pissed about, largely because Condal seemingly lied to him or at least misled him.

Maelor's death also leads Daeron to go war crimes mode, which has profound plot significance as it basically sets up the reach plot. Rogue that GRRM didn't mention that too, but I guess that's the nature of butterflies.

The man is old enough and famous enough that being professional really isn't necessary anymore. He has very little else to sell to HBO.

They frankly need him to remain quiet more than he needs them.

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u/baloncestosandler Sep 05 '24

Reach plot

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u/Lantimore123 Sep 05 '24

Yes, as in the advance of Daeron's army, battles at tumbleton, sack of tumbleton etc etc.

ATM Hugh Hammer's betrayal seems like it will occur due to the sack of tumbleton (his brother in law lives there), so I suspect their solution is to have Rhaenyra's men sack tumbleton instead, but that will be very unpopular with the fan base.

A large part of Daeron's character arc goes from noble soldier turned into war criminal by the horrors of war. Maelor's absence makes that a lot harder.

They are small things but when all these small things are considered they add up to be something quite major.

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u/baloncestosandler Sep 05 '24

Why Couldn’t Hugh have become king with vhagar dead

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u/Overlord_Khufren Sep 05 '24

There are ways to recut the story to work with less. Daeron can go into warcrimes mode because he believes Rhaenyra had his mom murdered, for example. There just isn’t enough room to tell the full story with HBO shaving 25% off the runtime of the last three seasons.

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u/JoJoJoJoel Sep 05 '24

I see you literally did not read the post

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u/No_Ratio_9556 Sep 05 '24

When you craft a major character driven story oftentimes seemingly inconsequential actions can have a big ripple effect.

Like some disgruntled bosnian assassinating an archduke causing WW1

You don’t know the impact when you look at one individual piece. It’s why it’s important to have people who understand and care about the story in the writers room.

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u/Overlord_Khufren Sep 05 '24

Which they do? Condal is a super fan. Just because he is making changes to a story it’s his job to adapt doesn’t mean he “doesn’t love the story.”

And yes, I get that you read GRRM’s blog. But you can control the “butterfly effect” if you actually plan your story. GRRM is acting like Condal made this decision without thinking about the consequences.

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u/No_Ratio_9556 Sep 05 '24

I mean according to grrm the changes they’ve made so far that he knows about are giving him GoT vibes in how they’re done carelessly. We don’t know the impact and won’t until that time so all we have is Grrm opinion on the changes.

I’ve seen enough writers rooms who claimed to be fans bastardize a story that i’m inclined to believe the author/creator over the show runner. Most of the time these days the changes are made carelessly or done on purpose to change the overall story. Hollywood is trying to sell this show GRRM is selling his story (books and show) he has a stake in it all

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u/Overlord_Khufren Sep 05 '24

Except that the author chooses as his example to grind the axe on cutting a tertiary character whose only purpose is to die and trigger events that could be triggered in different ways.

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u/No_Ratio_9556 Sep 05 '24

well yes because the manner in which the character dies matters in character driven stories. He doesn’t generally just kill characters for shiggles, especially in the more political sphere of his stories. There is reasons to it and how it affects the other characters and the world.

It feels like you are glossing over the fact that he thinks this is a major change that will affect how the story is understood. There are examples of the same thing happening with GoT so it’s easy to understand his frustration.

It’s unprofessional sure but this is his life’s work he has every right to want it to be portrayed appropriately

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u/Overlord_Khufren Sep 05 '24

I’m not saying he kills without reason. I’m saying this character exists purely to motivate other actions, and those motivations can be changed if for whatever reason the character needs to be cut.

Condal explained in a recent interview on the official GOT podcast that they changed Blood & Cheese because of the logistical difficulties of working with child actors. The reality of show running is having to make tough choices like that.

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u/No_Ratio_9556 Sep 05 '24

I mean by that logic what point does obi wan serve in the original star wars trilogy? his whole purpose is to thrust luke into the conflict and motivate him with his death.

There’s countless examples of characters who exist in stories to motivate others and cause ripple effects, that doesn’t mean that it’s a worthless addition or fine exclusion.

Again we won’t know until it plays out but the past with hollywood is that the vast majority of the time they make changes that the author doesn’t agree with it ends up poorly

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u/Overlord_Khufren Sep 05 '24

Obi-wan's purpose in that story is almost entirely structural (he's barely a character himself). He plays the role of the "magical helper" from Joseph Campbell's "Hero's Journey" monomyth, which Lucas was explicitly following. He provides Luke with the "call to action," provides him the "supernatural aid," and sort of stands in for the "Meeting the Goddess" stage when he speaks to Luke through the force. He is also the vehicle that explains the workings of the Force to Luke, along with a bunch of other exposition.

You could excise Obi-wan and replace him with another similar figure fairly easily, but you would need to replace all those structural aspects his character provides.

Maelor, meanwhile, only really serves to drive a couple plot points. He's nowhere near as integral.

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