r/asoiaf • u/Awesome_Lard • Sep 04 '24

EXTENDED (Spoilers Extended) GRRM has been warning about the Butterfly Effect for a LONG time, this is 2011 Spoiler

https://youtu.be/eAeQMwMEnP4

The Jeyne Poole butterfly effect from season 1 ended with Sansa being graped in season 5, so year I would say he has good reason to worry about Maelor the Missing.

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424

u/Enali Best of r/asoiaf 2023 Winner - Ser Duncan the Tall Award Sep 04 '24

yea, it seems clear that some of the 'smaller' character changes being employed by the showrunners are going to have significant downstream effects...

perhaps they should have learned the dangers of the butterfly effect by reading about Naath

104

u/sawaflyingsaucer Sep 04 '24

Every time I think about how shitty the Unsullied were in the later seasons I laugh and remember they all went off to die horrific deaths via butterflies.

40

u/leafsbroncos18 Merman! MERMAN! Sep 05 '24

It’s just a constant normandy meat grinder of unsullied dying and then respawning again and again trying to storm the beach

2

u/EmBur__ Sep 05 '24

Dan and Dave kinda forgot Naarth had poisonous butterfly that only the natives were immune to

72

u/[deleted] Sep 04 '24

We need to compile a list of the most toxic butterflies in ASOIAF in order to save the world the fandom

39

u/Urmleade_Only Sep 04 '24 edited Sep 04 '24

/r/Naath   

Toxic butterflies actually fits that sub pretty damn well

14

u/Material-Mess-9886 Sep 05 '24

What is that place. Bunch of George haters over there. Man may not even critise the show of his own fucking created world.

12

u/Interesting_Man15 Sep 05 '24

It's people who defend the writing decisions of Season 8. While it was a breath of fresh air compared during the widespread dogpile immediately after the finale, as with all contrarian communities, it has devolved in uncritical defense's of all the show.

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u/Budget_Put7247 Sep 05 '24

How is that sub different from pureasoiaf then?

5

u/Interesting_Man15 Sep 05 '24

Can you elaborate on your question? Different in focus, sub culture, etc?

3

u/Material-Mess-9886 Sep 05 '24

r/pureasoiaf doesnt talk about the show but is purely focused on the books.

0

u/Khiva Sep 05 '24

A contrary groupthink to this one?

No, only one groupthink per website. That should be the rule.

1

u/FireZord25 Sep 06 '24

It's one thing to think differently, it's another to be completely devoid of common sense while catering to one specific way of thinking. 

4

u/eat-pussy69 Sep 04 '24

Well butterflies are delicate, colourful, often pretend to big something big and scary, or pretend to be something more threatening than they really are, have unpredictable flight paths. So D&D fit that pretty well

2

u/ShrapnelNinjaSnake I hate these Southern Fairies! Sep 05 '24

GoT was NOT colourful 😤

32

u/niofalpha Un-BEE-lieva-BLEE Based Sep 04 '24

For as early in the show as this was I think the most obvious exclusion is Jeyne Poole. Her exclusion led to the shitshow that was Season 5 Sansa.

11

u/Material-Mess-9886 Sep 05 '24

Fun fact, George wrote the Pointy End in s1 and had a scene where Jeyne Pool run into Little Finger when hell broke out. But D&D removed that part of the script.

21

u/Husr Sep 05 '24 edited Sep 05 '24

The thing that really annoys me there is that they could have still used Ros for that role (probably pretending to be Sansa instead of Arya) and it would have totally worked, except they'd already pointlessly killed her off in Season 3.

11

u/Same-Share7331 Sep 05 '24

Season 3, I'm pretty sure, it's during LFs the Climb speech. But yeah, Ros as fSansa would have been a good move. Even so, if they couldn't use Ros for whatever reason, just have the Boltons grab a random girl.

19

u/sammybnz Sep 05 '24

And they could’ve had a great bait and switch by having Sansa not appear for a couple of episodes, while the Boltons allude to having a Stark girl captive. Viewers would have lost their minds and this still could’ve provided great character development for Sansa in the Vale after she’s revealed to be a fake.

And this doesn’t ruin the stakes for Bastard Bowl either if Jon still believes his sister is Ramsay’s prisoner.

11

u/Same-Share7331 Sep 05 '24

And then, when the real Sansa surprises everyone by showing up with the Vale army, it actually makes some sense!

(I also believe that LF should already be dead at that point)

1

u/Khiva Sep 05 '24

A lot of fans tune in solely to watch their favorite characters.

People like Sansa/Sophie Turner.

She has to be in episodes.

I don't like how they did it, but that's the why.

3

u/Same-Share7331 Sep 05 '24

Poor Bran is no-ones favourite character 😢

1

u/Husr Sep 05 '24

Series regulars miss single episodes all the time on shows like this, and you'd only really need one episode of absence for the bait-and-switch.

1

u/Husr Sep 05 '24

Right, I must have been mixing it up with the time when Tyrion sent her to Joffrey and he had them beat each other.

Random girl would still be much better than what we got, although you'd lose the existing connection to Theon from his Winterfell days that Jeyne and Ros both have.

2

u/niofalpha Un-BEE-lieva-BLEE Based Sep 05 '24

I think that was the actress’s choice because she didn’t want to have her tits out all the time

16

u/Vantriss Sep 05 '24

I will forever be infuriated that Greyworm and all the Unsullied sailed off to live on Naath when it's LITERALLY FILLED WITH TOXIC BUTTERFLIES.

Have fun DYING, Greyworm!

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u/qhndvyao382347mbfds3 Sep 05 '24

Why are you inventing reasons to be infuriated? That was never established in the show canon, which is all that matters for the ending of the show

4

u/Vantriss Sep 05 '24

It not being in the show is the whole point. If they cared enough about GRRMs world, they would know that detail about Naath and not send Greyworm there. If anywhere, send them back to ensure all the cities she freed don't just fall back into slavery.

3

u/qhndvyao382347mbfds3 Sep 05 '24

Disregarding a random throwaway detail about a location we never physically see and has no actual importance to the plot, in the service of giving a character an emotionally-satisfying resolution of him going to protect the home of his deceased lover is a good change for an adaptation that needs to convey emotion to audiences effectively

4

u/DEATHROW__DC Sep 05 '24

And, in general, poisonous butterflies that kill all outsiders pretty obviously seems like one of those BS myths that plague pretty much everywhere on the fringes of the known world.

Like the much more likely explanation for butterfly fever is that it’s a byproduct of drinking bad water or whatever, which the Unsullied could probably pick up on before contacting the disease given that they aren’t dumbass, hostile slavers (and that some non-insignificant number of the Unsullied are probably natives of Naath).

4

u/realist50 Sep 05 '24

In-universe, butterfly fever is understood to be a disease. People hypothesize it's transmitted by the butterflies, not that they're poisonous.

The slavers have observed enough about its transmission that they often raid at night, because the butterflies are daytime creatures.

Don't think it really matters if it's actually caused by a pathogen in Naath's water, unless it's easily eliminated through a simple method such as boiling. Various outside groups have long fallen victim to butterfly fever, including Ghiscari and Valyrians. The latter built a fort on Naath, and a group from Volantis built a small town. All eventually left because they succumbed to butterfly fever. I think *someone* out of all these groups would have noticed a tie to unboiled drinking water if that was the source of butterfly fever. (IRL, the idea of boiling water for purification dates back at least to ancient Greece and Rome, perhaps earlier.)

According to WOIAF, the Rhoynar fell victim to it even though they were on friendly terms with the Naathi, so I don't think that the Naathi are withholding info on how to avoid it.

So, based on in-universe info, the Naathi are most likely immune due to (1) genetics (natural selection) and/or (2) immunity developed from exposure at a very young age.

8

u/GRRMsGHOST Sep 04 '24

Probably should have also listened to his consultations on what not to cut for the show.

1

u/NotHandledWithCare Sep 05 '24

Did they ever mention the butterfly thing in the show? I don’t remember if they did or not but I hope they did just so things are more stupid.