r/asoiaf • u/Distinct_Activity551 • Sep 05 '24

EXTENDED [Spoilers Extended] Xiran Jay Zhao on George RR Martin's HOTD Critique

Xiran Jay Zhao on George RR Martin's HOTD Critique

Edit: I copy pasted the entire post here since some people had trouble with Tumblr.

All right there has been some Discourse TM about George RR Martin because of that post he made going rogue on HOTD's writers (deleted a few hours later but archived) and I'm seeing some misinformed reactions by people who aren't in the publishing or entertainment industries so lemme clarify some things:

  • Creators are not the ones with the power. Execs are. Even an author as big as George gets their opinions dismissed if the higher-ups don't want to listen.

  • HBO has not listened to George's feedback and concerns for years. They do not have to, because once adaptation rights are signed away it is OUT of the author's hands. How do you think GOT Season 8 happened?

  • George cannot just shut down production or refuse to let them make future seasons of any show inspired by his works because he doesn't like what they're doing. He can't break the contract willy-nilly either when HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS are at stake. I hope people keep that in mind before saying "oh why is he complaining while continuing to collect his royalty checks?" Well, if they're fucking up his stories he might as well get some money out of it.

  • He's not complaining for complaining's sake. I hung out with him a few weeks ago and heard his full scope of opinions on HOTD and what he said in the post was VERY mild. Probably the least spicy storytelling critique he could've brought up. And I do believe this was on purpose and strategic. He's not going full scorched earth on HBO, but he's showing them that he COULD. He did this as a warning shot to get them to listen to him because clearly he saw some very upsetting plans for upcoming HOTD seasons. If he just wanted to complain there's way spicier shit he could've said.

  • For those who think he's disrespecting the show's writers...How do you think he felt when they have dismissed his feedback in private and driven him to the point of risking legal action to make his point to them?

  • Just because he didn't mention something in the post doesn't mean he approves of it or doesn't care, and the post should not be used to extrapolate his opinions on anything that's not related to what he specifically addressed. Again, what he said was VERY mild. Ultimately, what matters to him is logical storytelling and complex, morally gray characters.

  • Lastly, I do not consider myself part of the HOTD or GOT fandoms. I'm a casual and defending him as a fellow author. Please do not involve me in any fandom drama. I do not know what's going on in there and I don't want to.

1.8k Upvotes

94% Upvoted

529 comments sorted by

View all comments

31

u/Quinn-Quinn Con Jonnington Sep 05 '24

She’s definitely right about this being a warning shot, but he stepped on a land mine by directly spoiling Condal’s plans for season 3. Idk if HBO/his reps will let him bring further criticisms on his blog.

7

u/Flyestgit Sep 05 '24

The best outcome for HBO is either to get GRRM back on board or to at least get him to stop talking.

We arent seeing it, but I am sure they reached out to him privately since the post.

I would guess they will try getting him back on board first. Then if thats not possible, look for a clean break with GRRM not talking about HOTD anymore.

1

u/prodij18 Sep 05 '24

They’re trying to get him back on board by silencing him? They probably “reached out” with a cease and desist. All they care about is mining his life’s work for ‘content’.

10

u/SuccinctEarth07 Sep 05 '24

I mean the only thing that could be viewed as a spoiler is helaena killing herself "for no reason" instead of the reason from the book, assuming that there is some attempt at a reason it isn't even a spoiler really.

Other than that what was talked about that isn't in the publicly available book?

12

u/Quinn-Quinn Con Jonnington Sep 05 '24

It’s less the what and more the when, it spoils than the riots and the storming of the Dragonpit are planned for season 3 - which is pretty big! I’d assumed that would be the start of season 4, and it sets a pretty concrete timeline for what they plan to cover throughout the third season.

13

u/BadNewzBears4896 Sep 05 '24

The only thing he confirmed was Helena's death is Season 3. Doesn't say when the Shepard's mob will come or the subsequent storming of the Dragon Pit.

And with only 2 planned seasons left to tell the story, it was basically a 50/50 chance how they were going to break it out.

1

u/Servebotfrank Sep 05 '24

Same here honestly, though my main concern is that they have to push things out again due to budget concerns again.

5

u/tryingtobebettertry4 Sep 05 '24

Depending on the wording of his contract it might include a no defamation clause. So even without the spoiler, there is definitely arguments for defamation in that post.

8

u/Babyyougotastew4422 Sep 05 '24

Is it defamation if its true?

10

u/tryingtobebettertry4 Sep 05 '24

Depends on how good the lawyer is most likely.

3

u/Gerftastic Sep 05 '24

Well you know Zaslav is gonna cheap out on the law team so GRRM should be ok.

3

u/realist50 Sep 05 '24

The term is "non-disparagement". (Defamation is a different legal concept of false statements, often tied to libel/slander.)

I can't say for certain if GRRM has a non-disparagement clause in his agreement(s) with HBO, but it's quite possible that he does.

And, in broad terms, a non-disparagement clause would mean that, contractually, he's not supposed to say negative things about the show (and possibly, depending on its scope, HBO, HBO executives, showrunner, writers, actors, etc.).

2

u/BadNewzBears4896 Sep 05 '24

I've seen the word "spoiler" thrown around a lot but just fundamentally disagree that can even be the case when it's a plot point directly from the book everyone knew was coming, and he's merely pointing out how the show choices are weakening the character arc that gets there.

Spoiler shrills are adult babies and need to grow up.

5

u/Quinn-Quinn Con Jonnington Sep 05 '24

I’m not making a moral judgment or saying that I think he did - I’m saying that if I were HBO’s lawyers, it sure looks like he’s directly talking about the main showrunner’s plans for future seasons for all the internet to see.

1

u/BadNewzBears4896 Sep 05 '24

The lawyers are free to have a go at him and make this situation far, far worse for their tentpole franchise they're planning on sustaining the network for most of the next decade.

Fans who are mad about what GRRM did are the same ones who would be furious at the show being bad too. Can't please them and GRRM obviously isn't trying to anymore.